Conference Finals Analysis
We analyze the Conference Finals of the NHL's Stanley Cup Playoffs between the Edmonton Oilers and Dallas Stars, and the Florida Panthers against the New Yorks Rangers.
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to Overtime Hockey Talk.
Mark Paul:My name is Mark Paul.
Mark Paul:Joining me as always, Justin Baker.
Mark Paul:Hi, Justin.
Justin Baker:I'm Mark.
Mark Paul:I like the hat.
Mark Paul:What's on the, what's on the other side of the hat?
Mark Paul:That's what we need to, everyone's going to want to know.
Mark Paul:Okay.
Mark Paul:North face.
Mark Paul:All right.
Mark Paul:Fair enough.
Mark Paul:solid hat.
Justin Baker:thank you.
Mark Paul:And some solid series.
Mark Paul:We're going to start off, with the show covering both Western and Eastern
Mark Paul:conference finals, one between the Dallas stars and the Edmonton Oilers.
Mark Paul:And the other, the Florida Panthers and the New York Rangers as well.
Mark Paul:It has been a minute that, you know, a few coaches have been hired
Mark Paul:and, we're going to break down, you know, the devil's hiring Sheldon
Mark Paul:Keith, the Leafs and Craig Berube.
Mark Paul:there's another one and
Justin Baker:Dan Bilesma.
Mark Paul:Dan Piles, my in
Justin Baker:Yeah,
Mark Paul:Yes.
Mark Paul:and I think we had talked about that actually, on our last show that was
Mark Paul:a possibility, but, we'll get into all those things and any rumors that
Mark Paul:we're hearing throughout the league.
Mark Paul:but let's start with the Eastern conference because that is, you know,
Mark Paul:we're headed into game six, which is happening in six hours 2 45 PM, Eastern
Mark Paul:time on Saturday, June the first.
Mark Paul:So we're, we're going to see that game by the time you're watching this.
Mark Paul:The game's likely over, Regardless, like Florida wins tonight or not,
Mark Paul:maybe it gets pushed to a game seven.
Mark Paul:What are your thoughts on this series through the first five games?
Mark Paul:Come
Justin Baker:well better go to game seven because you know, my latest TikTok, I'm
Justin Baker:like come on Rangers, but you know, really for me, I've enjoyed the goaltending
Justin Baker:battle so far with this whole series.
Justin Baker:You know, it seems every night it's just, it's super tight.
Justin Baker:it's so hard to get a, to sneak one past either one of these goaltenders right now.
Justin Baker:And you know, I, you know, honestly, if you had to pick, you know, the
Justin Baker:two top goaltenders so far left in the playoffs, it'd be these two guys.
Justin Baker:yeah, it's just,
Mark Paul:an argument that could be made for Ottinger at different points of the
Mark Paul:playoffs, but you would definitely look at him right now and you go, I mean, he's
Mark Paul:just, he's an average goalie right now.
Justin Baker:yeah, absolutely.
Justin Baker:And
Mark Paul:for the stars, but he's also not winning anything for the stars.
Justin Baker:yeah, exactly.
Justin Baker:And they need him to do that.
Justin Baker:And, the other thing, you know, for me noticing through the first five games
Justin Baker:of the series, it's just the absence of Chris Kreider and Mika Zabinijad,
Justin Baker:that top line hasn't been producing.
Justin Baker:And, you know, I mean, if you look at the numbers on a whole, Zabinijad,
Justin Baker:you know, has a point per game.
Justin Baker:I mean, he's produced, but it's primarily been, you know, the four.
Justin Baker:First two series, first two rounds.
Justin Baker:you know, they need him to come through if they're going to get passed, you
Justin Baker:know, Florida, and especially like I mentioned with both goaltenders playing
Justin Baker:so good and the series being so tight, they need other guys to produce, because
Justin Baker:when you look at Florida on the opposite end through five games, it hasn't
Justin Baker:been all Barkoff or all Reinhardt.
Justin Baker:It's been, you know, a different guy, every single game, it seems like steps
Justin Baker:up and, you know, does it for them.
Justin Baker:And right now the Rangers, it's, It seems like it's just Trocheck and
Justin Baker:Lafreniere and that's pretty much it and Gudrochipson and that's been it really.
Mark Paul:Yep.
Mark Paul:I think Crider has a one shorthanded goal, which I mean, it's fun.
Mark Paul:It is funny that he had a shorthanded goal.
Mark Paul:but either way you look at it, he cannot score five on five.
Mark Paul:He'll never score five on five.
Mark Paul:you're better off having fewer players on the ice for him to score.
Mark Paul:yeah.
Mark Paul:And when you look at, I mean, man, It's really, yeah, you're right.
Mark Paul:It's been true check who has what two goals in this series.
Mark Paul:he's got five points so far, in this one against Florida.
Mark Paul:he's been good, but yeah, you can't, I mean, they've just been
Mark Paul:relying so heavily on just Sturgeon.
Mark Paul:Every game has been the shisterkin show, but I will say game five.
Mark Paul:Took a little bit of a turn where I know Florida still outshot New York.
Mark Paul:I think no matter what New York does, Florida is going to
Mark Paul:outshoot them because Florida just tends to have possession more.
Mark Paul:That's more their game.
Mark Paul:New York is more like, let's like get in on the corners and let's try
Mark Paul:to force you to draw a penalty so we can get our power plays, which.
Mark Paul:Ironic that hasn't been happening nearly as much and they haven't
Mark Paul:really been scoring on the power play.
Mark Paul:So I think the one issue or maybe there's more than one issue, but
Mark Paul:when you're the team and Dallas, the Dallas stars are almost a mirror of
Mark Paul:the New York Rangers when you're the team who get possession five on five.
Mark Paul:you can win.
Mark Paul:Absolutely.
Mark Paul:You can win.
Mark Paul:I mean, both teams prove through the first two rounds that you can win,
Mark Paul:despite not necessarily winning the possession game, the Washington series
Mark Paul:aside, because a Washington, but.
Mark Paul:They don't have possession that's fine.
Mark Paul:As long as your power plays going, as soon as that power play dries up, it's
Mark Paul:going to be trouble and it's been trouble for the New York Rangers and really
Mark Paul:the Dallas stars, which we'll get to, anyone, you know, I look at Adam Fox and
Mark Paul:I think about how much of a play driver he is, and I'm pretty sure he's hurt.
Mark Paul:I don't know how bad, but it's bad enough to make them look like he's
Mark Paul:practically invisible at times.
Mark Paul:And that's, I think a huge reason why New York maybe where they are
Mark Paul:when you're probably maybe not their best player, but he is their most,
Mark Paul:maybe their most important player on the ice outside of Shisterken.
Justin Baker:Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all.
Justin Baker:And right.
Justin Baker:I mean, when you look at offense, it starts at the back end and
Justin Baker:that's what drives play up front for the Rangers, right?
Justin Baker:Because they like to chip it in.
Justin Baker:They like to go in, in the corners and get dirty.
Justin Baker:So if you don't have the back end moving the puck, it's going to be a long series
Justin Baker:for the Rangers, because I mean, I'll be honest, they're not as fast as Florida.
Justin Baker:I think everybody knew that going in that, you know, Florida had
Justin Baker:the edge when it came to speed.
Justin Baker:you know, that neutral zone, it's about making that initial
Justin Baker:pass out of the defensive zone.
Justin Baker:Up to the forwards and then getting it shipped in and going into those
Justin Baker:corners and digging the puck out.
Justin Baker:And so that's the Rangers game.
Justin Baker:And, you know, Adam Fox, you're right.
Justin Baker:I haven't heard his name outside of the power play very much.
Justin Baker:And, you know, when he's kind of absent, it's.
Justin Baker:It's hard to get, it's hard to get offense going five on five when you're not really
Justin Baker:getting much play from your back end.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:And I, you know, I expect whether or not Florida wins game six, I think we'll
Mark Paul:see the Rangers best game in game six.
Mark Paul:I that.
Mark Paul:I think that is a team that they're not just going to go down without a fight.
Mark Paul:You know, they're definitely going to bring their a game.
Mark Paul:I think you'll see shisterkin will be just as good.
Mark Paul:And honestly, all it takes.
Mark Paul:I mean, even in that game five, you were like, Oh shoot, is Florida
Mark Paul:about to get shisterkin again?
Mark Paul:And.
Mark Paul:I'm sure Florida was thinking the same thing.
Mark Paul:Like it was tight there for a minute until they kind of broke through.
Mark Paul:But I got to think that, I mean, if you're Florida and you look at these
Mark Paul:five games, I think you go, we are the better team, but we could easily
Mark Paul:be down three, two in this series.
Mark Paul:which means this game six is not a foregone conclusion at all.
Mark Paul:And, the Rangers have guys who make things happen.
Mark Paul:Quickly and on a dime.
Mark Paul:I just, I wonder about their injuries.
Mark Paul:I wonder who's hurt.
Mark Paul:You know, you were talking about Zabina Jad, not really doing
Mark Paul:a whole lot in this series.
Mark Paul:wonder if he's hurt and not that any time you don't produce, it means
Mark Paul:automatically he's probably hurt, but it's the playoffs we're in the third round.
Mark Paul:They probably are hurt.
Mark Paul:And so is everybody else though.
Mark Paul:But I definitely think I look to Adam Fox and I go, something's wrong, but you're
Mark Paul:going to take Adam Fox at 70 percent over.
Mark Paul:All right.
Mark Paul:let's, shift gears.
Mark Paul:Let's go.
Mark Paul:do you think the Rangers are going to come back?
Justin Baker:I do.
Justin Baker:I think they're going to get shisterkend because, I mean, yes,
Justin Baker:I picked them to win the cup, but, yeah, I got to stick with them.
Mark Paul:All right.
Mark Paul:All right.
Mark Paul:I think Florida is gonna, I really want this year's to go seven games.
Mark Paul:So I'm just going to say seven.
Mark Paul:but I think Florida is going to take this one.
Mark Paul:it's been a fantastic series.
Mark Paul:think it's been the better of the two series and both series have been
Mark Paul:like, I'd give both series in a.
Mark Paul:As far as like the grade for how great the series has been.
Mark Paul:but this one has the slight edge, think, just cause it's just
Mark Paul:Sturkin and Bobrovsky, it's just been a great goaltending duo.
Mark Paul:so let's shift to Dallas and Edmonton, Edmonton, of course, last night, the
Mark Paul:stars and this one, you know, we're going back to Edmonton up three, two for,
Mark Paul:for the Oilers and it was Ryan Nugent Hopkins, which, I thought it was funny.
Mark Paul:Everything I was seeing about Ryan Nugent Hopkins was like, he's the heart
Mark Paul:of the team, the coach's favorite.
Mark Paul:And I don't know how I never picked up on this.
Mark Paul:I guess it's a, it's a thing, but Ryan Nugent Hopkins is apparently
Mark Paul:Chris Knobloch's favorite.
Mark Paul:On the team and knows it and everybody gives them, give some shit for it.
Mark Paul:but it was like all over social media, like the coach's favorite got another one.
Mark Paul:I loved it.
Mark Paul:Uh, what do you think of the way that Edmonton has played the
Mark Paul:stars in the first five games?
Justin Baker:I think, especially this last game, you know, Edmonton's
Justin Baker:very North and South, right?
Justin Baker:They like to just hit you with speed and just head right up the middle and,
Justin Baker:you know, straight through your gut.
Justin Baker:and there, there were, you know, obviously those games where Dallas
Justin Baker:has come away with the W, they've been able to slow that down.
Justin Baker:And, they really failed to do that.
Justin Baker:I think in game five, they were super absent.
Justin Baker:And I think the biggest thing for me with Dallas is they're not
Justin Baker:showing up to start the games.
Justin Baker:I don't know if maybe they just don't have the right alarm set or they don't have
Justin Baker:their clocks on the right time zone, but.
Justin Baker:They're not showing up to start these games.
Justin Baker:It seems like almost every game Edmonton's out shooting them 10 to
Justin Baker:two to start things off and really Ottinger's having to hold the fort, you
Justin Baker:know, without it getting out of hand.
Justin Baker:And that's been the repeating thing for me every single game.
Justin Baker:I feel like
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:I don't know if you, watch the press conference following game
Mark Paul:five, but, of course, you know, Hey, we're deep into the playoffs now.
Mark Paul:And ESPN starts to send, some bigger name people.
Mark Paul:And Tim Kalasha was there.
Mark Paul:I don't know if you ever watched, I think it was like around the horn or.
Mark Paul:you know, he was one of the guys on there, and he asked Pete
Mark Paul:DeBoer, head coach of the stars.
Mark Paul:He's asking him, you know, like questioning the team's character and like
Mark Paul:why they aren't getting started on time.
Mark Paul:you know, I think it ended with Pete DeBoer saying, go ahead and
Mark Paul:write the fuck, whatever you want.
Mark Paul:And
Justin Baker:I missed that.
Mark Paul:And just got on him.
Mark Paul:Like you're going to question this team's character.
Mark Paul:You're going to write whatever the you want.
Mark Paul:and I think he was like, you don't even know this team.
Mark Paul:You're not even here.
Mark Paul:You just showed up for the playoffs,
Mark Paul:which is so true.
Mark Paul:I mean, hockey is the one sport.
Mark Paul:I mean, you know, you've got the NFL, you've got baseball, where.
Mark Paul:ESPN covers them all year long.
Mark Paul:I'm like a beat reporter kind of viewpoint, but, hockey's the
Mark Paul:one that don't play off start.
Mark Paul:We got to send people to it.
Mark Paul:I, he got them pretty good.
Mark Paul:what do you think of Stuart Skinner and how he's played in this one?
Mark Paul:Because he was really maybe the, maybe the weak link headed into this series.
Mark Paul:How do you think he's played?
Justin Baker:He's a rollercoaster for me.
Justin Baker:I, you know, I, there's been a couple games where I just look at him.
Justin Baker:I'm like, really, dude, you're letting in a soft one here, letting a soft
Justin Baker:one there, but then he'll turn around and make really spectacular saves.
Justin Baker:you know, I don't know if you remember that, that goal, you know, that Robertson
Justin Baker:goal where he's down by the post and he just banked it in off his back, right?
Justin Baker:Like he lets in those soft ones every once in a while.
Justin Baker:And it's, you know, It's detrimental to this team sometimes.
Justin Baker:And, you know, it just, there's been a lack of consistency for
Justin Baker:me with Stuart Skinner's play.
Justin Baker:And I mean, it hasn't been.
Justin Baker:Super terrible where I'm like, clearly outside.
Justin Baker:I think that Robertson hat trick game, I think, you know, I haven't really
Justin Baker:looked at any other game and say, you're really the reason they've lost.
Justin Baker:but he hasn't done anything in my opinion, to win them games, but he's
Justin Baker:been solid enough to keep them in it.
Justin Baker:And, you know, obviously.
Justin Baker:He's let the big guys do their thing and take over.
Justin Baker:And that's all he needs to do, really.
Justin Baker:I mean, that's all he's expected to do.
Justin Baker:Much like when Kemper was in Colorado, right?
Justin Baker:he wasn't expected to steal games.
Justin Baker:He was just expected to hold the fort down and let McKinnon, Rantanen,
Justin Baker:and Landeskog do their thing.
Mark Paul:Damn.
Mark Paul:Although Kemper was still paid like 5 million bucks, I think for the abs.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Mark Paul:And when you look at the four goalies left, you've
Mark Paul:got Bobrovsky making what?
Mark Paul:10, right?
Mark Paul:Rob's he makes 10, Shusterkin is at 5.
Justin Baker:and a half.
Mark Paul:which is, which, he is about to, yeah, five and a half, 5.
Mark Paul:6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7 for one more year.
Mark Paul:And then he's about to get, you know, his nine.
Justin Baker:money?
Mark Paul:I think he'll get Vasilevsky.
Mark Paul:I think that's the kind of deal he'll get.
Mark Paul:I don't know that anyone's getting 10.
Mark Paul:I don't know that.
Mark Paul:we'll talk, we'll, we can talk, you know, we'll talk goalies in the off
Mark Paul:season as far as their contracts go.
Mark Paul:But, you've got Shair 5.6, but that deal was signed a little while ago
Mark Paul:and, during the dead cap kind of time.
Mark Paul:So I would think that I mean, he's a $8 million goalie Dallas, Jake Inger, he's
Mark Paul:at 4 million for more year, and then.
Mark Paul:Stuart Skinner is that like 2.
Mark Paul:6 and when you pay somebody 2.
Mark Paul:6 little, I don't mean he's small.
Mark Paul:I just, he was not even supposed to be the number one goalie when Jack Campbell
Mark Paul:was signed for his 5 million bucks.
Mark Paul:And so 2.
Mark Paul:6 million, another two years after this.
Mark Paul:And I mean, for what you get with Stuart Skinner, which you're right.
Mark Paul:Not the most consistent all the time.
Mark Paul:You know, he's not the world's greatest goalie, at 2.
Mark Paul:6 million, what goalie would you rather have making Less than 2.
Mark Paul:6 million a year.
Justin Baker:I mean, you're getting what you pay for, right?
Justin Baker:And that's what they're getting.
Mark Paul:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Mark Paul:and he's been great for 2.
Mark Paul:6 million.
Mark Paul:Like he's making less than half of what shister can makes, you know,
Mark Paul:he makes one and a half million less than Ottinger and he makes, you know,
Mark Paul:A fourth of what Bobrovsky makes.
Mark Paul:that is what allows you to have the rest of the team that the Oilers have.
Mark Paul:so I think he's been good enough.
Mark Paul:I mean, they're one game away from the Stanley cup finals and yes,
Mark Paul:Calvin Pickard had to come in for a couple of games against Vancouver.
Mark Paul:but that I think was a really good thing for the Oilers because
Mark Paul:they tightened up defensively.
Mark Paul:And I think the Vancouver Canucks prepared the Edmonton Oilers for the Dallas stars.
Mark Paul:So I,
Justin Baker:I like that.
Mark Paul:Canucks, weren't going to have huge possession
Mark Paul:numbers against the Oilers.
Mark Paul:They also didn't have the depth that the stars had.
Mark Paul:They also had an AHL goalie who she loves.
Mark Paul:I mean, he looked really good.
Mark Paul:He wasn't expected to be there.
Mark Paul:And, I think when you look at it, Dallas is, almost like a
Mark Paul:much better version of Vancouver.
Mark Paul:And they play, they've played them really well.
Mark Paul:And I think they prepared them for Dallas and it's it's
Mark Paul:going very well against them.
Mark Paul:And, I mean, we'll see what Dallas can turn around here.
Mark Paul:I don't think Dallas is dead in the water, but I do think that
Mark Paul:they're going to have to somehow get on the Oilers just like early,
Mark Paul:which they
Justin Baker:the key.
Mark Paul:game four, right?
Mark Paul:Was it game four?
Mark Paul:They went up to nothing.
Justin Baker:yeah, you're right.
Justin Baker:I mean, that's the key, right?
Justin Baker:Get in there early.
Justin Baker:and they, I mean,
Mark Paul:today.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:Game four.
Mark Paul:I think they got, was it game four
Justin Baker:no.
Justin Baker:Game four was the hat trick by Robertson, but, but still, I
Justin Baker:mean, that's the thing though.
Justin Baker:you have to show up and you got to get started early against this Edmonton team.
Justin Baker:And they got to just find a way, I mean, in my opinion, to,
Justin Baker:to slow down this power play.
Justin Baker:that's the big one for me, right?
Justin Baker:And they've got to get their power play going because, I mean, Dallas
Justin Baker:is 0 for 11 so far in this series.
Justin Baker:I can't believe it, but Edmonton's leading the league in penalty kill.
Justin Baker:Insane.
Justin Baker:Wouldn't never have thought that going into these playoffs.
Mark Paul:and not to mention the power play that they have,
Mark Paul:which finally scored in game five.
Mark Paul:and yes, it was game four.
Mark Paul:The stars got up to nothing the game.
Mark Paul:Wyatt Johnson, Esalen Dell, and then the Oilers scored five straight,
Justin Baker:That's right.
Justin Baker:That's right.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Mark Paul:it, I was like, Oh, two, nothing.
Mark Paul:Dallas.
Mark Paul:We're five minutes into the game.
Mark Paul:Stuart Skinner is going to lose it.
Mark Paul:just tends to do better when he gets the incremental, you know,
Mark Paul:okay, things are going well and he gets better as the game goes along.
Mark Paul:But if you can get to him early, we've seen earlier in the playoffs where
Mark Paul:that kind of spells trouble for the Oilers and he kind of shook that.
Mark Paul:So I think it also shows to the maturity of Stuart Skinner.
Mark Paul:He's getting better.
Mark Paul:He can be.
Mark Paul:He can be shell shocked here early in a game and it doesn't mean the game's over.
Mark Paul:That may be more of a Testament to the fricking amazing team in front of
Justin Baker:I kind of feel bad for Stuart Skinner too, in
Justin Baker:a way, because Edmonton's had such bad goaltending for so long.
Justin Baker:if he was a, you know, a two and a half million dollar goaltender
Justin Baker:on any other team, expectations would never be this high.
Justin Baker:because Edmonton has just suffered for, So long with poor goaltending since, I
Justin Baker:mean, really, they haven't got anything since, you know, Javi Bullen and
Justin Baker:going back that far, if you want, but,
Mark Paul:Wayne Rolison or
Justin Baker:yeah, I mean, again, it's just, it's
Mark Paul:I think Oh, what was I going to say?
Mark Paul:Oh, it's gone.
Justin Baker:gone.
Mark Paul:I had something and it's gone.
Mark Paul:yeah, I mean, I like Stuart Skinner.
Mark Paul:I think when you goalies that have won the Stanley cup lately,
Mark Paul:he kind of fits the bill, right?
Mark Paul:Like Aiden Hill and.
Mark Paul:Darcy Kemper, like we talked about, I mean, Vasilevsky, but just like
Mark Paul:the last couple of years, you know, somebody who just kind of finds their
Mark Paul:way in and all you need is a goalie.
Mark Paul:Who's good enough.
Mark Paul:Got to make one more save than the next guy.
Mark Paul:And that's.
Mark Paul:Pretty much who Stuart Skinner is.
Mark Paul:He's nothing more than an average goalie in the league
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:And I mean, he can be a good goalie, right?
Justin Baker:I mean, he's still got time to develop, but for right now,
Justin Baker:that's all he has to be average.
Justin Baker:That's it.
Mark Paul:who do, what do you see for the rest of this series?
Mark Paul:Where do you think we're going?
Justin Baker:Oh, I mean, again, I think right now it's,
Justin Baker:I think Edmonton's on a mission.
Justin Baker:I think, you know, McDavid and Drysidle, they look possessed, that top four,
Justin Baker:whatever you want to call them, the core four, like in Toronto, right?
Justin Baker:You've got Bouchard, Drysidle, McDavid, Nuge, these guys are rolling right now.
Justin Baker:And I mean, yes, we, I've talked about the depth and that's been my biggest key
Justin Baker:to why I picked Dallas in the series is because up front, Dallas has got so much
Justin Baker:more depth, but if Edmonton continues to play defensively, like they have and get
Justin Baker:average goaltending, I think these four guys up front for them, you know, and.
Justin Baker:Bouchard on the back end.
Justin Baker:They're just playing so well and they just seem possessed.
Justin Baker:Like they, they finally want to get over that hump.
Justin Baker:They've been trying to get to the finals for so long.
Justin Baker:I think right now they're just, they're going to close it out.
Justin Baker:I just, I can't see, I have a hard time picking Dallas to come
Justin Baker:back in this to say the least.
Mark Paul:Yeah, I would agree.
Mark Paul:I don't, I can see them winning a game.
Mark Paul:I can see Dallas going into Edmonton, lot of pressure, and
Mark Paul:Dallas finds a way I think.
Mark Paul:You know, you give these two games, I think that, I mean, Edmonton
Mark Paul:just has the puck so often.
Mark Paul:I think what, through the series, we're looking, we're like, 122 to
Mark Paul:102 shots, five on five, Edmonton leading the way, but just their
Mark Paul:penalty kill has been fantastic.
Mark Paul:There, everything has been really good for the Oilers outside of maybe the
Mark Paul:power play and the power play finally struck in game five and they won.
Justin Baker:And the other big thing too, that,
Mark Paul:just, when I look at Dallas, I just.
Justin Baker:yeah, the other big thing for me with Edmonton is outside
Justin Baker:of game one, that double overtime, they've started over 50 percent of
Justin Baker:the draws in the offensive zone.
Justin Baker:So if you can't keep them out of the offensive zone,
Justin Baker:it's not going to end well.
Mark Paul:Yep.
Mark Paul:That's a, that's very true.
Mark Paul:And you know, I think it was early in this series or before
Mark Paul:the series started whole thing.
Mark Paul:and I think I actually did a tick tock on it.
Mark Paul:you can find us on tick tock, O T dot hockey.
Mark Paul:talk.
Mark Paul:because for some reason, OT hockey talks gone, but there's no account.
Mark Paul:I can't get it.
Mark Paul:there's some dots in between.
Mark Paul:but you can find us on there.
Mark Paul:And I said, I think that the way the Oilers will beat
Mark Paul:them is through possession.
Mark Paul:and that's the, the one falter of the Dallas system is that
Mark Paul:they don't have the puck enough.
Mark Paul:it's proven very true in this series.
Mark Paul:And I will say, I know you want the New York Rangers to win.
Mark Paul:When you look at the possession numbers of the Panthers and the Oilers, how
Mark Paul:does it not just tickle you just a little bit to go, damn, both those
Mark Paul:teams play each other in the finals.
Mark Paul:They both want the puck all the time.
Mark Paul:Which team is actually going to be the one that has the puck because they both
Mark Paul:play, it'd be like if the Rangers and the stars ended up in the finals together.
Mark Paul:think you just have the puck sitting there and the guys would be checking each
Mark Paul:other, but they'd never touched the puck.
Mark Paul:these two teams are going to be, they want the puck.
Mark Paul:And I think it's going to make for an unbelievable final.
Mark Paul:I think we're, we are steamrolling ahead to a Panthers Oilers final.
Mark Paul:And I know the league would love the Rangers to be in
Mark Paul:the final with the Oilers.
Mark Paul:I think that would be the number one ratings success.
Mark Paul:If you had all of Canada and.
Mark Paul:of New York and the surrounding areas watching the Stanley cup finals.
Mark Paul:You'd get some big numbers, but I think it's going to be Florida Edmonton.
Mark Paul:And I think it's going to be fast and everyone wants the puck.
Mark Paul:It's going to be crazy.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:if you're the league, you want Edmonton in there.
Justin Baker:Cause you want all of Canada to watch it, man.
Justin Baker:It's been so long since Canada's had a cup.
Mark Paul:you need McDavid to lift that cup over his head.
Justin Baker:solidifies him as an all time.
Justin Baker:Great.
Justin Baker:You got to win one.
Mark Paul:And you want to add, he is one of your greats, based on what he's
Mark Paul:done the first, like eight years, nine years of his career, he's, he is hall of
Mark Paul:fame, like Maybe skip the ballot, like skip the wait time kind of Hall of Famer.
Justin Baker:skip the wait time.
Justin Baker:Okay.
Justin Baker:Okay.
Mark Paul:I think by the end of it, you could be in that spot, but.
Mark Paul:You want someone like that.
Mark Paul:It's the same like you want McDavid winning a cup.
Mark Paul:You want Matthews to have a cup I get you want Bedard to eventually get his
Mark Paul:cup You know, you want your superstar players to win a cup and it has been
Mark Paul:a good chunk of time I think Nathan McKinnon winning finally winning his cup
Mark Paul:in Colorado I think this would be seen as a very similar like he is he's different
Mark Paul:this year You can see it in his eyes.
Mark Paul:Him and dry CIDL are, are weathered, but in a good way, it's like
Mark Paul:they've been through too much.
Mark Paul:We can't lose again.
Mark Paul:And, it's what I would love to see.
Mark Paul:And some of, you know, as a Leafs fan, I'd like to see what I see in their
Mark Paul:eyes in certain players on, the Leafs.
Mark Paul:But, all that to be said, I think we're gonna, we're in store for
Mark Paul:maybe one of the best finals that we've had in a very long time.
Justin Baker:Part of me is, I'll be honest with you.
Justin Baker:Part of me is a little romantic and want to see Adam Henrik win one here.
Justin Baker:So we'll see.
Mark Paul:Adam Henrik.
Justin Baker:Yes.
Justin Baker:Oh,
Mark Paul:you a blowy or something?
Mark Paul:ha.
Mark Paul:Sorry, Adam.
Mark Paul:ha.
Mark Paul:you know, you can just see your face starting more and more red.
Mark Paul:Oh, there it goes.
Mark Paul:I'll have to put an effect on you for that one.
Justin Baker:Thanks.
Mark Paul:what is it about Adam Henrik that you, the real
Mark Paul:reason you want him to win a cup?
Justin Baker:Just cause he's been stuck in Anaheim for so long, man.
Justin Baker:I just felt bad for him.
Justin Baker:And, you know, he's always been a quality player.
Justin Baker:I know that with New Jersey.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Mark Paul:he was on New Jersey,
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Mark Paul:in 2012, right?
Justin Baker:Yeah, but they didn't win, you know, and,
Mark Paul:Oh
Justin Baker:you know, I mean, he, and I think he, what was it?
Justin Baker:I, if I remember correctly, he got the overtime winner
Justin Baker:to take them to the finals.
Justin Baker:you know, he's been clutch for teams in the past and he hasn't been
Justin Baker:able to go to the playoff sense.
Justin Baker:So it's you know, when you get a guy that's just been, you know, I don't
Justin Baker:want to say just playoff stricken for so long, He finally gets in and, you know.
Justin Baker:After such a long drought, it's man, you know what?
Justin Baker:I really want to see, I want to see good things for this guy.
Justin Baker:And, especially coming back from injury, man.
Justin Baker:And he scores that goal.
Justin Baker:it was almost like, you know, it's a nice little storybook ending maybe.
Mark Paul:It's fate.
Mark Paul:yeah, I just, I think that'll be a, that'll be a great final.
Mark Paul:I was going to ask you, do you think this is sort of unrelated, but related,
Mark Paul:you know, we were talking about how greatness is almost measured.
Mark Paul:You got to have your Stanley cup.
Mark Paul:Do you think.
Mark Paul:With what seems to be inevitable, 34 teams in the national hockey
Mark Paul:league coming pretty soon.
Mark Paul:If there's 34 teams in the league and like average player,
Mark Paul:let's say a hall of fame player.
Mark Paul:How long do you have to play in general to be a hall of fame player?
Mark Paul:Like 12, 12 years, maybe as a minimum.
Mark Paul:I know there's been a few who play a little less than that, but like
Mark Paul:you, you're usually not playing fewer than a thousand games.
Mark Paul:Like I think what Pavel Bure has fewer than a thousand, there's not very
Mark Paul:many guys in the hall of fame with
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:Dad, Zouk has less than a thousand.
Justin Baker:I mean, I think at least you got to play 10 years, right?
Justin Baker:I think a minimum, like 750, 800.
Mark Paul:you at 820 games, which is not still not.
Mark Paul:And that assumes that you don't get hurt ever.
Mark Paul:I, yeah, I think, we'll say average guy probably plays like 12 to 15
Mark Paul:years, somewhere in that span.
Mark Paul:I mean, yes, there's going to be some that are less than more,
Mark Paul:but somewhere in the 12 to 15.
Mark Paul:So if you're in there in 15 years.
Mark Paul:Even if a different team wins every single year, that's still
Mark Paul:not even half the league winning the cup in that 15 year span.
Mark Paul:So there's going to be some great players that win the Stanley cup.
Mark Paul:There will be 30 teams that go to the finals.
Mark Paul:Potentially, you know, maybe you're probably going to have some overlap.
Mark Paul:It's not going to be 30 different teams.
Mark Paul:wonder if it starts to get he took his team to four conference finals.
Mark Paul:Two Stanley cup finals.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:He never won it, but look at how far he took his team.
Mark Paul:And that's going to have to become more important portion of that
Mark Paul:conversation because yeah, when there was six teams in the league, if you
Mark Paul:never want a cup, forget about it.
Mark Paul:You couldn't beat the five other teams or even you couldn't beat the
Mark Paul:12 other teams the 20 other teams.
Mark Paul:But now we're at, we're closer to 40 than anything at 34 teams.
Mark Paul:And.
Mark Paul:I think at some point the conversation is going to have to shift to Oh, look at how
Mark Paul:many playoff games he won, or look at his playoff record or something like that.
Mark Paul:of course, you always want the guys who win the Stanley cup.
Mark Paul:You're just going to put them into a different category, but you have really
Mark Paul:great regular season success and you just don't have the team in front of
Mark Paul:you, at some point, you're going to have to start measuring playoff success
Mark Paul:as maybe a little bit differently than only winning or losing a Stanley cup.
Justin Baker:yeah, I could see that.
Justin Baker:And I think it's essentially going to be, what did you do?
Justin Baker:What, I mean, not necessarily what did you do, but like, how
Justin Baker:did you compete in the playoffs?
Justin Baker:If you show up and you're, you know, you know, 0.
Justin Baker:6, 0.
Justin Baker:5 points per game, and, or maybe you're 500 as far as win losses as a
Justin Baker:goaltender, Your numbers aren't great.
Justin Baker:So to me, that would be a mark of, you know, if you're a guy who shows up and
Justin Baker:puts, you know, a point per game in every single year and, you Just really, it pulls
Justin Baker:the, puts the team on his back, but you know, of course, this is a team sport.
Justin Baker:We know that.
Justin Baker:and it's probably one of the better team sports in all of America, as far
Justin Baker:as, you know, not having individual players, like for example, basketball,
Justin Baker:You can have one great guy and go far, but, you know, in hockey, you need
Justin Baker:other guys to help you along the way.
Justin Baker:you know, what did you do as far as, you know, putting in your weight
Justin Baker:right towards that ultimate prize.
Justin Baker:And I think that's, you know, maybe you might look at two
Justin Baker:during the regular season, some other accolades where you know.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:At the top of, you know, top of the pile, you know, as far as, you
Justin Baker:know, offensive points of concern.
Mark Paul:and all that.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Mark Paul:there's other things that have to come into it as well.
Mark Paul:but I just think that eventually the conversation will have to shift to
Mark Paul:look at how many conference finals he went to, or look at how many
Mark Paul:playoff rounds they won or something.
Mark Paul:Whereas that, it's weighed much heavier, much more heavily guys that are getting
Mark Paul:into the hall of fame even now, when there was like 26 teams and, you add in eight
Mark Paul:more teams, I mean, it's just you've got such a fewer chance of even getting to
Mark Paul:the finals, that it's just, it's tough.
Mark Paul:yeah, let's, should we shift to all the coaching hires?
Justin Baker:I love it.
Justin Baker:Let's go.
Mark Paul:All right, let's, let's go to the, let's go to the
Mark Paul:big one because, I mean, Craig Berube getting hired by the Leafs.
Mark Paul:That was probably the biggest news that broke that, in that this time span.
Mark Paul:And, you know, of course he comes in, kind of says like all the things that
Mark Paul:you expect him to say, didn't really say much at his press conference.
Mark Paul:And, he's coming in and he's gonna.
Mark Paul:He's going to do some things.
Mark Paul:Now we did see took a picture of Mitch Marner and Craig Berube
Mark Paul:in a coffee shop in Etobicoke.
Mark Paul:And of course, all of Leafs fans got hard and, they're trying
Mark Paul:to figure out what's going on.
Mark Paul:I think I want to know from you before I, you know, I little
Mark Paul:fangirl comes out here, but
Justin Baker:ha.
Mark Paul:think Mitch Marner and the Leafs in Craig Berube,
Mark Paul:does it make any difference?
Mark Paul:The Leafs deal them?
Mark Paul:what do they do here?
Justin Baker:Now, I don't think it makes a difference.
Justin Baker:I have heard that, that Marner has submitted a list of teams.
Justin Baker:I don't know how much truth there is to that, but again, I'm always a
Justin Baker:firm believer in where there's smoke, there's a, you know, there's probably
Justin Baker:going to be fire at some point.
Justin Baker:you know, whether they can get a deal done is, you know, what,
Justin Baker:you know, what ultimately ends up happening, where he lands.
Justin Baker:But regardless, you know, let's just say Mitch Marner stays in Toronto, right?
Justin Baker:They can't find a.
Justin Baker:The right package.
Justin Baker:They just, you know, decide, you know what, Hey, we'd rather just
Justin Baker:keep this guy because we know we're not going to get a good return.
Justin Baker:We want to see if we can make it work, Give it a year.
Justin Baker:And if it doesn't work, we'll deal them at the draft for his rights or
Justin Baker:whatever, you know, have you, or do a sign and trade, you know, whatever.
Justin Baker:Anyways, to me, I think.
Justin Baker:You know, again, when you talk about that coffee shop, that little meet
Justin Baker:up, I mean, you can say what you want.
Justin Baker:Was it saying, Hey, you know what, you got to go or, Hey,
Justin Baker:these are the expectations, right?
Justin Baker:So it's
Mark Paul:Don't talk to my guys.
Justin Baker:right.
Justin Baker:but for me, I think, you know, more than anything else, it's,
Justin Baker:you know, I think it's good.
Justin Baker:I'm to meet with every player, regardless where they're going to end
Justin Baker:up, because he has no control over that.
Justin Baker:You have to assume if you're Barubi that, hey, Mitch Marner
Justin Baker:is going to be back next year.
Justin Baker:You don't go in with the assumption that they're going to trade him because
Justin Baker:that would just be, I mean, that'd be the stupid way to play the, you
Justin Baker:know, to play your hand right now.
Justin Baker:So you have to go on assuming he's going to be there.
Justin Baker:at least anybody who signed is going to be there, right?
Justin Baker:And then if they get dealt, you know, you obviously pivot along the way.
Justin Baker:So for Barubi, Create that relationship, start building that,
Justin Baker:you know, that relationship, you know, have that foundation and then
Justin Baker:know what Marner's expectations are.
Justin Baker:Maybe see what he wants to do.
Justin Baker:Maybe that was the whole point of that.
Justin Baker:you know, because we know about Berube and what he's going to bring to Toronto.
Justin Baker:Maybe, you know, we've already heard, you know, Oh, he's
Justin Baker:going to bring more structure.
Justin Baker:He's going to bring better defensive systems, yada, yada, yada.
Justin Baker:We don't know for sure what he's going to do, you know,
Mark Paul:I
Justin Baker:but,
Mark Paul:is probably going to be the biggest
Justin Baker:yeah.
Justin Baker:And maybe that was part of the sit down, It's just Hey, you know what,
Justin Baker:this is what I've seen out of you.
Justin Baker:This is what I'd like to see going forward.
Justin Baker:And again, not assuming that he's on his way out.
Justin Baker:You don't want to, you know, that would be a fool play, but, you know, to me,
Justin Baker:I just, I'm excited to see, you know, I would like to see Marner get another shot.
Justin Baker:At with this lineup and see what they can do with a new coach, a new system
Justin Baker:and have a whole off season to just kind of figure those things out right now.
Justin Baker:whether or not, you know, again, management Shanahan, the rest, you
Justin Baker:know, Brad Travilling, these guys ultimately deal Marner is, you
Justin Baker:know, a whole nother issue because you need some help on the back end.
Justin Baker:You need a goaltender.
Justin Baker:so we'll see what, what ultimately plays out.
Justin Baker:But I like at least that he started building that relationship with Marner.
Mark Paul:I'm going to tell you what I think happened in the
Mark Paul:interview process with Craig Brubeck.
Mark Paul:Cause of course you're coming in like once, once you're at a certain point
Mark Paul:in the interview process, they're going to ask you about You know, what
Mark Paul:kind of line combinations are like, what structure are you going to play?
Mark Paul:what are you going to do with this guy?
Mark Paul:You know, what are you, how are you going to play?
Mark Paul:You know, what would you do with the goaltending situation right now?
Mark Paul:You know, they're going to ask you all those questions.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:Montour.
Mark Paul:what?
Mark Paul:What would you do with Mitch Marner if you were us?
Mark Paul:And I think he went, look, I've been able to take other players instant.
Mark Paul:When I was in St.
Mark Paul:Louis, I took guys who maybe weren't known as being super tough.
Mark Paul:I E like a Tara Senko.
Mark Paul:I don't think that he was known as being super tough he took Tara Senko.
Mark Paul:And by the time he was done in St.
Mark Paul:Louis, by the time Tara Senko left, I know he's not it's not like Tara Senko
Mark Paul:is going to go and blow anybody up.
Mark Paul:You don't want them to, but you look to Tara Senko.
Mark Paul:Like when they won their cup, he was a valuable part of that cup run.
Mark Paul:Like they don't win the cup without Tara Senko.
Mark Paul:And was throwing hits.
Mark Paul:He was doing things that were very not Tara Senko I think he went.
Mark Paul:just goes, I can do that for Marner.
Mark Paul:I can take this guy and I can mold him into the player that he can be.
Mark Paul:I can do it.
Mark Paul:I've done it before.
Mark Paul:So don't trade them, you know, and of course management is going to go, I mean,
Mark Paul:we're, we have to look at all options, Hey, if you can go out and you can get.
Mark Paul:A stud defenseman for Marner.
Mark Paul:You might need to do it just because, not because you don't like Marner, but
Mark Paul:just because you need a defenseman who can, you look at all the teams left
Mark Paul:in this, in the playoffs, you know, like Dallas has their high skin in.
Mark Paul:And I know the Leafs have Morgan Riley, but, most teams
Mark Paul:have that extra, the extra guy.
Mark Paul:You know, you look at the Panthers and it's Forsling and Eckblad.
Mark Paul:And, you need a second.
Mark Paul:Yep.
Mark Paul:And funny enough, Montour hasn't even been that great.
Mark Paul:but you need to have more than just one defenseman.
Mark Paul:And I don't think they have that guy that they're, I think at one point,
Mark Paul:TJ Brody may have been the guy who you're like, we can rely on him.
Mark Paul:He can stay at home, but he has since that's no more.
Mark Paul:And he was never that he was never elite.
Mark Paul:think he was just really good.
Mark Paul:maybe towards the beginning of that deal.
Mark Paul:So I think you look at it and you go, yeah, we need a defenseman.
Mark Paul:So if you can get one for Marner, I mean, it kind of makes sense.
Mark Paul:And it allows you to reallocate some cap space.
Mark Paul:if that defenseman doesn't cost as much cool.
Mark Paul:But think that he said, I went, I can get this guy to play the way that I want him
Mark Paul:to, and the way that he can be successful.
Mark Paul:So that come playoff time, he is a fricking monster.
Mark Paul:And.
Mark Paul:I mean, if a coach came in and told you that you go, all right,
Mark Paul:let's see what you can do.
Mark Paul:I mean, you can always trade Marner at the deadline, you know, you can go,
Mark Paul:yeah, we want to see some progress.
Mark Paul:And if we see that he's starting to make some changes in his game
Mark Paul:to, to become the player, we need him to become playoff time.
Mark Paul:Then great.
Mark Paul:And you can always trade him at the deadline.
Mark Paul:Maybe that means he still has a good regular season.
Mark Paul:I mean, he's never going to in value unless he goes and of course
Mark Paul:like gets hurt or something.
Mark Paul:I think that's.
Mark Paul:That's gotta be like, as a coach, you're never going, I don't want this guy.
Mark Paul:You're going to look at Marner and go, Oh, I can make this guy.
Mark Paul:What I, what he needs to be.
Justin Baker:I think any coach coming in and you look at that core for that
Justin Baker:Toronto has, and if you were, I mean, again, any coach in this league and you
Justin Baker:had the opportunity to coach those guys versus trading them away and trying to
Justin Baker:figure something else out, you would take those guys and be like, you know what,
Justin Baker:I'm going to take 300 point players.
Justin Baker:And a stud defenseman and, you know, and then of course, you know, John Tavares,
Justin Baker:I don't know where you want to throw him, but, you know, and I would say, shit,
Justin Baker:I'll take those guys any day, right?
Justin Baker:I mean, most coaches don't even get one of those guys, let alone, you get three
Justin Baker:of those offensive dynamic forward.
Justin Baker:you know, to be able to have that kind of, that firepower upfront,
Justin Baker:of course, you're going to.
Justin Baker:You know, go in there and say, you know what, I can take this guy and I can
Justin Baker:kind of just tweak him a little bit and make him what I think he really
Justin Baker:could, you know, what he needs to be a standout, you know, playoff performer.
Justin Baker:you know, again, I don't know what that is, what his approach is going
Justin Baker:to be, you know, whether or not he's going to say, you know what, just don't
Justin Baker:focus on offense, focus on defense.
Justin Baker:The goals will come right.
Justin Baker:Much like Bowman did with Iserman, right?
Justin Baker:Hey, let's focus on this end of the game.
Justin Baker:Although.
Justin Baker:Again, I don't think Marta really needs to focus on defense anyways, but
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:He's also, he's like your best penalty killer.
Mark Paul:And there's a lot of, I mean, there's a lot to it's really,
Mark Paul:it's just come play off time.
Mark Paul:like regular season.
Mark Paul:He's fine.
Mark Paul:No one has any complaints about him in the regular season.
Mark Paul:it's come play off time.
Mark Paul:And that's, I mean, that's everybody, which.
Mark Paul:me, you're like, you, you need this coach to be able to go in and
Mark Paul:is it the players or was it the system or who could we replace in
Mark Paul:and around these guys to do this?
Mark Paul:And I, it seems like the Leafs have been trying that for a long time.
Mark Paul:So you look at those four or five guys and you go, which one
Mark Paul:needs to go, who's the problem?
Mark Paul:Is it really Mitch Marner is you'd really cross your fingers and hope it's not
Mark Paul:Mitch Marner because he's talent wise.
Mark Paul:He, Austin Matthews, I mean, he is your second best player.
Mark Paul:he's just overpaid.
Mark Paul:I think he, if he was only making, if he was making what Nylander made, I don't
Mark Paul:think we're having the same conversation.
Justin Baker:no, I agree with you.
Justin Baker:And, you know, again, I think it all comes down to what Brube really,
Justin Baker:you know, maybe he went in and, you know, during the interview process
Justin Baker:and again, going back to that need for a defenseman said, you know what?
Justin Baker:I need this, right?
Justin Baker:This is what I need.
Justin Baker:Maybe he would rather.
Justin Baker:Take a guy or maybe, you know, again, backing up a little bit, maybe he
Justin Baker:just went in and said, you know what?
Justin Baker:I want to stack my front, my, my top line with Marner, Nylander and Matthews,
Justin Baker:and then go out and get some, some journeymen, some work, you know, those
Justin Baker:middle six guys, you know, like maybe a guy like David Perron, Who he has
Justin Baker:familiarity with a free agent, a guy who can come in the middle six, probably
Justin Baker:is not going to be super expensive.
Justin Baker:Maybe a max Domi again, guys like that.
Justin Baker:Maybe he knows how to.
Justin Baker:To use those guys in the right way.
Justin Baker:Or maybe he has some guys in mind where he's you know what?
Justin Baker:If I can get these three forwards here to work, you know, you
Justin Baker:know, to produce this way or
Mark Paul:well alongside Matthews in that second half of the season.
Justin Baker:yeah.
Justin Baker:And
Mark Paul:He was
Justin Baker:I mean, again, we don't know what his, you know, what his
Justin Baker:thought process is going in and what kind of systems he's going to put in.
Justin Baker:But, you know, you gotta think, I mean, I, as Berube, I would.
Justin Baker:You know, just be salivating to have a guy like Marner on my team, who's, you know,
Justin Baker:both offensively gifted and defensively gifted and try to make it work.
Mark Paul:All right.
Mark Paul:let's shift to Sheldon Keefe, who of course fired by the Leafs and hired
Mark Paul:very quickly coach the New Jersey devils and their, young core, starting with
Mark Paul:Jack Hughes, Nico, he sure Luke Hughes, Where do you think the, that, like the
Mark Paul:devil's go from here with hiring Keith, like what was their thought process?
Justin Baker:I think their thought process was working with the younger guys,
Justin Baker:And not only working with younger players, but he's worked with high end talent.
Justin Baker:He's got that experience with that high end talent.
Justin Baker:I think that's when you look at Jack Hughes, you know, you can throw Dougie
Justin Baker:Hamilton in there and a couple other guys, you know, Nico Heischer, and that's, you
Justin Baker:know, young guys who have a lot of talent and, you know, maybe he, they think,
Justin Baker:you know, Hey, this guy can come in and, you know, tweak a couple little things.
Justin Baker:And, you know, we saw what he did right towards the tail end there
Justin Baker:in Toronto for that last year.
Justin Baker:So he was able to shift and get them to play a little bit more of a defensive
Justin Baker:game, and maybe they're thinking, you know, what, We just need him to come in
Justin Baker:and just help develop these younger guys.
Justin Baker:And then if necessary, just tweak a little bit.
Justin Baker:you know, and again, I just, I don't know what their long term thought
Justin Baker:processes with a guy like Sheldon Keefe over maybe some more experienced guys
Justin Baker:and, you know, don't get me wrong, Keefe has got experience, but, You know,
Justin Baker:he hasn't got past the second round.
Justin Baker:He's only been there once.
Justin Baker:So maybe, you know, maybe their thought process is focusing on younger talent and
Justin Baker:bringing up guys in development versus having an experienced coach who maybe
Justin Baker:is gone deep in the playoffs, right?
Justin Baker:Like a Dan Biles, my, for example, a guy who's won it all.
Justin Baker:so he knows what it takes.
Justin Baker:And he's also worked with.
Justin Baker:You know, higher end talent.
Justin Baker:Now, again, not to say that Bilesma wasn't on their radar, but maybe a guy
Justin Baker:like Todd McClellan, who's been in the finals and, you know, worked with some,
Justin Baker:you know, higher end talent as well, too.
Mark Paul:Yes.
Mark Paul:And I also think they looked at Sheldon Keefe and they went, this is a guy.
Mark Paul:Yeah, sure.
Mark Paul:His team didn't win in the playoffs very often.
Mark Paul:One of the one time, Now there are some, can also look at it and go, all
Mark Paul:right, the first year that he took over, he was fired, like Babcock's
Mark Paul:fired halfway through the year.
Mark Paul:He takes over a team that was way out of the playoffs.
Mark Paul:They found their way into the playoffs and they almost beat the Boston Bruins
Mark Paul:who are really fricking good that year.
Mark Paul:And they pushed him to seven games.
Mark Paul:So they're like, yeah, he did lose in the first round, but not all
Mark Paul:those first round losses were.
Mark Paul:We're considered catastrophic like that year.
Mark Paul:It was I mean, yeah, the Leafs lost in the first round, but like
Mark Paul:Sheldon keeps only been here for three months and, or four months.
Mark Paul:And they almost beat the Bruins.
Mark Paul:Cool.
Mark Paul:And I think it was year, you know, you're like, we lost to the Tampa Bay lightning
Mark Paul:who went on to win the Stanley cup.
Mark Paul:It was that Montreal series.
Mark Paul:Was the one that was like, should have won that series.
Mark Paul:Montreal series was killer.
Mark Paul:and like, I think that's really the one year where they should have won
Mark Paul:and they didn't all the other years.
Mark Paul:I don't know that you would have looked back and gone, Oh,
Mark Paul:the leaf should have won that.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:And I mean, either way, I still look at again, all those, you know, early exits
Justin Baker:and even the second round loss there.
Justin Baker:they still showed up.
Justin Baker:They still competed.
Justin Baker:they weren't just pushed over and swept and, you know, look
Justin Baker:like a bunch of jabronis.
Justin Baker:you know, again, that's,
Mark Paul:I think the New Jersey devils looked at him and said, all right, we
Mark Paul:went to the Stanley cup final in 2012.
Mark Paul:Since then we've made the playoffs twice.
Mark Paul:That's two times in 12 years, they've made the playoffs, they won one round
Mark Paul:probably at a very fortunate win in that round, you know, they, they beat the New
Mark Paul:York Rangers who were heavily favored and they kind of had a miracle year that
Mark Paul:year, a little bit, based on what they did the year before they had 63 points.
Mark Paul:And the year before that they had 45 points.
Mark Paul:I know it was a COVID the COVID year, but they were bad.
Mark Paul:then they had 112 and then they went back to 81 and I think they went, you
Mark Paul:were going to come in here and we are going to make the playoffs every year.
Mark Paul:And then we have a good enough team to advance through the playoffs.
Mark Paul:yes.
Mark Paul:Do they want to win the cup?
Mark Paul:Absolutely.
Mark Paul:First and foremost, you got to make the playoffs every year.
Mark Paul:that's a non negotiable when you are one of the best teams in the league.
Mark Paul:make the playoffs pretty much every year.
Mark Paul:you can have a hiccup here and there.
Mark Paul:Tampa Bay had one hiccup that one year where, everybody got hurt all year
Mark Paul:long, and they missed the playoffs.
Mark Paul:Other than that, Tampa Bay's been in the playoffs every year.
Mark Paul:The Toronto Maple Leafs, yeah, they haven't won in the first round very much,
Mark Paul:but they made the playoffs every year.
Mark Paul:The Boston Bruins, they make the playoffs every damn year.
Mark Paul:that's where you got to get to first before you're going to go
Mark Paul:and you're going to win a cup.
Justin Baker:And you got to think too, right?
Justin Baker:they've had Lindy Ruff in there for quite a while now.
Justin Baker:And you wonder, you know, we had this old veteran coach, this
Justin Baker:guy kind of stuck in his ways.
Justin Baker:Why do we want to go out and find another veteran guy, Who's
Justin Baker:just going to, you know, again, have that lack of flexibility.
Justin Baker:And maybe that's what they think.
Justin Baker:And Sheldon Keith, a guy who, you know, again, you know, a little newer hockey
Justin Baker:kind of guy, and who has that flexibility to, you know, change systems and isn't
Justin Baker:really just again, stuck in his ways, Boy,
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:And you know, the other damning thing is, since 2018, they finished eighth,
Mark Paul:seventh, second, and seventh in the Metro.
Mark Paul:Like it's either really all or nothing over the last seven years.
Justin Baker:you know what I would love?
Mark Paul:time
Justin Baker:I would've loved to have seen Andrew Burnett take
Justin Baker:over this team from Lindy Ruff when he was the assistant there,
Mark Paul:he would
Justin Baker:man,
Mark Paul:well.
Mark Paul:I mean, Florida, when they let Andrew Burnett go, we were both just like,
Mark Paul:Why are you letting this guy go?
Mark Paul:And then they bring in Paul Maurice and then ended up being
Mark Paul:like, that was the money hire.
Mark Paul:Paul Maurice has been so good.
Mark Paul:did you see after game five, a reporter was like, yeah, so you
Mark Paul:guys only had one giveaway all game.
Mark Paul:And he just cracked up.
Mark Paul:He's, he just started, he bent over and was laughing.
Mark Paul:He's are you serious?
Mark Paul:And he said, who was it?
Mark Paul:You're like, you want to know what it was?
Mark Paul:It was like, it was, he was, don't tell me if it was Bobrovsky.
Mark Paul:And he says, no, it was Eckblad and
Justin Baker:excellent.
Mark Paul:out.
Mark Paul:He's off.
Mark Paul:He's out next game.
Mark Paul:They had, and so I went and I looked the stats one giveaway, all game
Justin Baker:no shit
Mark Paul:unreal.
Mark Paul:I think the ranger said 12.
Justin Baker:Yeah, that's one giveaway.
Justin Baker:That's a little unheard of.
Justin Baker:Little unheard of.
Mark Paul:funny.
Mark Paul:Like he's just hilarious.
Mark Paul:he's so light and relaxed in those press conferences.
Mark Paul:he's fantastic.
Mark Paul:I think that he is, he may, I, you know, we can go best coaches.
Mark Paul:He's easily my favorite coach in the NHL right
Justin Baker:sometimes, right?
Justin Baker:that personality, you need those guys to work with what you have as
Justin Baker:far as like player personnel, right?
Justin Baker:If you have the wrong personality type coach, it just.
Justin Baker:Doesn't work out sometimes.
Mark Paul:Like we kind of got like John Cooper got elevated so much in
Mark Paul:those couple of cups in a row and he made the finals like, and it was kind
Mark Paul:of this, he's a very stoic, he's funny.
Mark Paul:He's just, he's a lawyer, And Paul Maurice is just not a lawyer.
Mark Paul:Like Paul Maurice is the guy that 100 percent would love to go
Mark Paul:and have drinks with, be a riot.
Mark Paul:To go and have drinks with,
Justin Baker:Okay.
Justin Baker:I like it.
Mark Paul:of fun that he's having in Florida right now, you know, you
Mark Paul:consider what happened in Winnipeg when he resigned, because he was
Mark Paul:basically like, I don't know what to do with these guys anymore.
Mark Paul:And this is not fun anymore.
Mark Paul:And there was a lot of stuff that came out that COVID really just wrecked it for him.
Mark Paul:And he didn't like being there anymore.
Mark Paul:And think he has absolutely found the fun back in the game and he's having
Mark Paul:a blast probably because of Florida.
Justin Baker:Miami is a fun city.
Justin Baker:Are you kidding?
Mark Paul:that's you.
Mark Paul:Yeah, that too.
Justin Baker:Nothing to do with
Mark Paul:final coach that was hired recently.
Mark Paul:And that is Dan balls, my, who many thought, I mean, it sure seemed like
Mark Paul:he was never going to coach in the NHL again, after the shit show that
Mark Paul:went down in Buffalo when he was the coach there, what do you think about
Mark Paul:balls, my getting hired in Seattle?
Justin Baker:I think it's great, man.
Justin Baker:I love seeing, you know, it's, I think what it's been seven years
Justin Baker:since his last head coaching job.
Justin Baker:And, I think it's great to, to see guys get another chance, but
Justin Baker:not only that, you know, he's in the organization already, right?
Justin Baker:So he's, he.
Justin Baker:He's been their AHL coach with the Coachella, you know, Firebirds.
Justin Baker:and you know, it's a great opportunity for him to come in.
Justin Baker:He knows the systems, he knows the personnel, the players, the management.
Justin Baker:So he's already familiar.
Justin Baker:He's ingrained in that organization.
Justin Baker:and you have the pedigree behind you too, right?
Justin Baker:So you've, you're coming in, you've got the respect of the players.
Justin Baker:Hey, we've got a guy here who's.
Justin Baker:Played in, you know, coached in Pittsburgh, won a cup.
Justin Baker:he knows what he's talking about a little bit, right?
Justin Baker:So there's going to be that respect.
Justin Baker:And plus he's done it very well in the AHL.
Justin Baker:I mean, he's had a lot of success there so far.
Justin Baker:you know, they're still in the playoffs from what I understand.
Justin Baker:I haven't looked in the last few days, but they're still in it.
Justin Baker:And, you know, again, when you have younger guys coming up through an
Justin Baker:organization that is, so young, it's going to be very important to already
Justin Baker:have that, that established connection with a lot of those younger guys.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:They're actually up to nothing in their series right now in
Mark Paul:the Western conference finals.
Mark Paul:I think the most important thing.
Mark Paul:the reason that ultimately they hired him, he took Shane Wright, who it seemed
Mark Paul:like everything was falling apart.
Mark Paul:He took them and he has molded him and he is a damn good player
Justin Baker:Yes.
Mark Paul:Coachella.
Mark Paul:The Coachella Valley Firebirds.
Mark Paul:He has been fantastic.
Mark Paul:Good defensively, like everything that he was touted for in juniors that.
Mark Paul:I think, I mean, because of COVID, he basically lost a whole year
Mark Paul:of playing because of COVID.
Mark Paul:And, he did lose a whole year.
Mark Paul:And what's that going to do for a lot of these guys?
Mark Paul:I mean, we've seen it happen to other players too.
Mark Paul:And I think he's just been able to mold him, shape them.
Mark Paul:And he's been great defensively.
Mark Paul:He's scoring goals.
Mark Paul:He's got 22 goals and 59 games in the regular season.
Mark Paul:he's got five points through six games in the playoffs.
Mark Paul:Like he has been.
Mark Paul:Fantastic.
Mark Paul:And if you can now bring Shane right up and he can be your number one center
Mark Paul:in the NHL because of what Balzema did.
Mark Paul:I think that's reason enough to hire him because they need Shane Wright to be good.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:they need right.
Justin Baker:And Matt, Matty Bernier's to,
Mark Paul:Yep.
Justin Baker:yeah, they gotta be the one
Mark Paul:thing for them, you know, I got to think that's,
Mark Paul:that's what they're looking at.
Mark Paul:They're going, look at who he coached when they won the Stanley cup.
Mark Paul:I know it was like a very different game, you know, 2008 penguins in the finals.
Mark Paul:They went to the finals twice, right?
Mark Paul:oh, eight and oh nine.
Mark Paul:And.
Mark Paul:You'll look at, I know it's Sidney Crosby.
Mark Paul:It's a big, I'm not saying any of these guys are Crosby or Malkin, but what he
Mark Paul:was able to do and shape young players.
Mark Paul:I mean, we have never ever seen that again outside of Chicago and Pittsburgh.
Mark Paul:None of these like superstar players, like McDavid, we're nine years in and he's
Mark Paul:finally knocking on the door of a final.
Mark Paul:I Sidney Crosby won his first Stanley cup in like his fifth year in the league.
Mark Paul:You know what?
Mark Paul:Patrick Kane won his first Stanley cup his fourth year in the third,
Mark Paul:fourth year in the league 2010, right?
Justin Baker:didn't take long.
Mark Paul:I got to think you're looking at it going, maybe he can do something.
Mark Paul:Maybe not like maybe we're not looking to those heights quite yet, but maybe
Mark Paul:he can do what he did with really young players to help them along
Mark Paul:and make deep runs in the playoffs.
Mark Paul:I mean, it's worth a shot.
Mark Paul:And he's clearly, I mean, we're talking almost 20 years later,
Mark Paul:different game, different coach.
Mark Paul:I'm sure than he was then, but I think it's a great hire.
Mark Paul:I love when teams go and promote their AHL head coach.
Justin Baker:Absolutely.
Justin Baker:Love it.
Mark Paul:All right.
Mark Paul:any final things you, you want to toss out there before we get out of here?
Justin Baker:I know we, we kind of looked at this a little bit.
Justin Baker:we text a hot minute about, Phil Peronick.
Justin Baker:I'd love to just kind of get your thoughts on, you know, Detroit
Justin Baker:giving them up and now it's kind of clear why they gave them up.
Justin Baker:So everybody was kind of questioning the long term like, oh my gosh, you know what?
Justin Baker:This guy could be a sweet one two punch on the, you know, back end with Mo Sider.
Justin Baker:And why'd you give him up?
Justin Baker:And now it's.
Justin Baker:Pretty clear why they gave him up now.
Justin Baker:It's a, it's going to cost a lot of money.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:Yeah.
Mark Paul:Of course that was, and there was an article that I had sent Justin
Mark Paul:and it essentially said now, Hey, Vancouver, like Iserman saw this for
Mark Paul:coming, so he got his draft picks and now here's Vancouver and they might
Mark Paul:not be able to sign Philip Ronick.
Mark Paul:is a, he's a, he's a.
Mark Paul:He's an RFA with arbitration eligibility.
Mark Paul:so whatever the arbitrator would decide, if it gets that far, then they have to
Mark Paul:either take it or he becomes a free agent.
Mark Paul:Uh, I'm going to go the other way.
Mark Paul:I mean, yeah, I think Iserman definitely knew that he was a good player.
Mark Paul:I don't think he knew he was going to be this good, nor did anyone think that
Mark Paul:he was going to be this important to.
Mark Paul:Quinn Hughes.
Justin Baker:that's the thing.
Justin Baker:I think he just, they clicked, they found that chemistry.
Justin Baker:And you didn't have that in Detroit.
Justin Baker:you know, I, at the time Vancouver was desperate, Tyler Meyers was
Justin Baker:not the greatest of defensemen on the right side, and so they were
Justin Baker:desperate to find somebody to, to match up who could play that speed
Justin Baker:game, be responsible defensively.
Justin Baker:And, you know, unfortunately,
Mark Paul:did
Justin Baker:yeah, he got
Mark Paul:and a fourth or something like that
Justin Baker:a first and a second.
Justin Baker:I think it was, I'm going to,
Mark Paul:and a second.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:I'm going to look it up here real quick.
Mark Paul:you can't complain about a first round pick.
Mark Paul:I, but I will say that the argument of, see, he would
Mark Paul:have cost him a lot of money.
Mark Paul:Therefore he shouldn't have traded them.
Mark Paul:I mean, Conor McDavid cost the Oilers a lot of money.
Mark Paul:Maybe they should trade him.
Mark Paul:I, there is a point where you go, I mean, in some respects, I don't
Mark Paul:think Heisman knew that he was going to be this good, you know?
Mark Paul:He's gonna be Devon TAs.
Mark Paul:that's, they've gotta be looking at that and going, this Devon TAs,
Justin Baker:I think they're hoping that They're going to have their Makar
Justin Baker:Taves pairing with Ronick and Hughes, And they got lucky with Hughes too,
Justin Baker:and signed him as cheap as they did.
Mark Paul:right.
Mark Paul:Which, Devon Tave signed 7.25, but he's a, he's much older though, you know,
Mark Paul:he's 30 years old and Ronan's only 26.
Mark Paul:I mean, I think that number is probably reasonable.
Mark Paul:Somewhere between seven, seven and a half million dollars.
Mark Paul:I think you almost have to do it.
Mark Paul:And maybe Ronan kind of knows, you're going to make Quinn Hughes real unhappy
Mark Paul:if you don't bring me back, because we both just had career years together
Mark Paul:and we got to within a sniff of the conference finals when we weren't
Mark Paul:even supposed to make the playoffs.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:And unfortunately it might end up costing them, maybe someone up front, right?
Justin Baker:Like I don't want to say a Brock Besser, but, you're going to have to move some
Justin Baker:money out to, to keep them because you know, you just paid Elias Pettersson.
Justin Baker:you've got JT Miller signed and, you know, of course, gosh, you know, Brock Besser.
Mark Paul:where McKay of stays in Vancouver.
Justin Baker:No, I can't either.
Mark Paul:I think he's got to be the odd man.
Mark Paul:I mean, he's making almost 5 million.
Mark Paul:He has a 12 team, no trade list, but you can work around that.
Mark Paul:And, I don't see a world where he stays because you can't trade Conor Garland
Mark Paul:after the playoffs that he just had.
Mark Paul:He was unreal.
Mark Paul:He was their best player.
Mark Paul:Probably half those playoff games.
Mark Paul:He was fantastic.
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:He and Elias Pedersen were great.
Justin Baker:And Dakota, I mean, Joshua, they have so many, you know, RFAs and
Justin Baker:UFAs they have to look at it.
Justin Baker:it's going to be crazy to try to, you know, piece back a team,
Justin Baker:I think after the year they had.
Justin Baker:And, for Detroit, You mentioned that the, we mentioned the first and second round.
Justin Baker:I'm looking at who they ended up drafting, in two 2023.
Justin Baker:And it was Axel Sandin Palika.
Justin Baker:And I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but I mean, this kid is, he looks
Justin Baker:He's going to be a stud in the NHL.
Justin Baker:And I think already a lot of, you know, hockey writers out there, they've got
Justin Baker:them penciled in as like the number one, number two prospect in Detroit pool.
Justin Baker:Already.
Justin Baker:This guy's that good.
Mark Paul:I mean, yeah, and that makes the trade worth it.
Mark Paul:I w I'm not saying that the trade wasn't a wise decision.
Mark Paul:The argument of Eisenman knew he would cost too much.
Mark Paul:I don't know.
Mark Paul:I don't know that Eisenman would look at it and go, he's going to cost me too much.
Mark Paul:Cause if he's going to cost you a lot, that means he's good.
Mark Paul:I don't think Iserman is going, let's give up someone really good for a draft pick
Mark Paul:where I don't even know who we're going to get at this position at that time, you
Mark Paul:know, obviously they end up with a guy that they really like and it works out.
Mark Paul:but I don't know if he's going, he's going to be too expensive.
Mark Paul:So let's trade him.
Mark Paul:I think he thought, I think people are overvaluing him right now.
Mark Paul:And I can get a first and a second round pick.
Mark Paul:For this guy, let's go.
Mark Paul:And then he ended up being better than I think anyone thought at the same
Mark Paul:time, though, I don't think Iserman is going to regret it because of the pick
Mark Paul:that he got, but also he'd go, we don't have Quinn Hughes that's great for him.
Mark Paul:He's great with him, but he's not playing it.
Mark Paul:He, it's not like we were going to put Ronic with, you know, Ben chariot, and
Mark Paul:he was going to be good all of a sudden, or, I mean, and they, him and Marie
Mark Paul:cider play the same way together that Hughes and him are playing together.
Mark Paul:So think it's a, it's, it was a win.
Mark Paul:Like everybody can smile and be happy about it.
Justin Baker:No, I agree with.
Mark Paul:signs them.
Mark Paul:If Vancouver doesn't sign them, then Vancouver is going to be real pissed
Justin Baker:Yeah.
Justin Baker:I mean, I think they could probably get a first rounder for him, but I
Justin Baker:don't know if they're going to get a first and a second round right now for
Justin Baker:a guy, like that, but you never know.
Mark Paul:left of before he becomes a UFA.
Justin Baker:That's the thing.
Mark Paul:I don't think they're going to train my, I think
Mark Paul:it's McKay of on his way out.
Justin Baker:they'll find a way to make it work.
Justin Baker:I really think so.
Justin Baker:You know, whether they got to give him a little bit more term or, you know, maybe
Justin Baker:he takes a three year deal and he cashes back in when he's 29, who knows, but.
Mark Paul:Yep.
Mark Paul:Yep.
Mark Paul:They have 20, almost 24 million in cap space available as well.
Mark Paul:I know they've got several guys to sign, but they got to
Mark Paul:decide to go to Josh, Joshua.
Mark Paul:I doubt Elias Lindholm is coming back, although they really liked
Mark Paul:the way he played in the playoffs.
Mark Paul:But,
Justin Baker:He's priced himself
Mark Paul:Austin's going to come back.
Mark Paul:Boston's going to throw him some money.
Justin Baker:Ooh, Boston.
Justin Baker:Okay.
Justin Baker:I think they're going to go after another Canuck by the name of Elias
Justin Baker:Lindholm, but we'll see about that.
Mark Paul:no, that's what I'm saying.
Justin Baker:Oh, I think it's in the Code of Joshua.
Justin Baker:I'm sorry.
Mark Paul:Oh, Dakota got, Oh, I'm sorry.
Mark Paul:Yes.
Mark Paul:I did say Dakota Joshua.
Mark Paul:Then I said Elias Lab.
Justin Baker:yeah, I missed that.
Justin Baker:I'm sorry.
Mark Paul:Yep.
Mark Paul:I think Boston's going after Lindholm.
Justin Baker:Yeah, absolutely.
Mark Paul:out to, all that's our show.
Mark Paul:Thanks for listening.
Mark Paul:Again, you can find us on TOK and Twitter or X, whatever you call it, at
Mark Paul:OT hockey talk, OT dot hockey dot talk.
Mark Paul:All the links are in the description below.
Mark Paul:Just click them, follow us.
Mark Paul:And, yeah, you can let us know what you think, leave some comments and we
Mark Paul:will be back after the Western F the both conference finals are over and
Mark Paul:Stanley cup finals will be beginning.
Mark Paul:And we'll beginning, we'll do a.
Mark Paul:a preview of the Stanley cup finals until then enjoy the rest of the third
Mark Paul:round, and we'll talk to you soon.
