Four Nations Championship + Trade Rumors
We dive into the Four Nations hockey tournament. The episode also discusses NHL rumors, such as potential trades involving Elias Pettersson, Tage Thompson, and Vladimir Tarasenko, and the signing speculations of John Tavares.
00:00 Welcome to Overtime Hockey Talk
02:23 Four Nations Tournament Overview
08:00 USA vs Canada: Key Players and Predictions
16:43 Rumors and Speculations
17:03 Vancouver's Potential Tank and Trade Scenarios
17:54 Brandon's Struggles with Carolina
19:44 Carolina's Playoff Challenges
21:46 Buffalo Sabres: Trade Opportunities
25:32 John Tavares' Potential Contract
30:51 Detroit Red Wings' Trade Rumors
37:40 Final Thoughts and Gold Medal Game Hopes
Transcript
Hello and welcome to Overtime Hockey Talk.
Speaker:My name is Mark Paul and Justin Baker joining me for the start of the show.
Speaker:It's a new phenomenon.
Speaker:I did it once.
Speaker:I thought about doing it today and then I sent a long text message instead.
Speaker:I just have to rewind here really quick because right before our video
Speaker:started recording, for those who don't know, we get a little countdown,
Speaker:it says 1, and then we record.
Speaker:And you literally, the minute the countdown went, you're like five seconds
Speaker:is too long and it took every ounce of me not to say that's what she said.
Speaker:Just.
Speaker:I don't know why.
Speaker:I just, the office, it's been, you don't get it.
Speaker:That's fine.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:I'm glad you don't.
Speaker:I like that office commercial.
Speaker:that's out that AT& T commercial with a bunch of people in the office.
Speaker:Have you seen that?
Speaker:And I was like, I can, I, I was never much of an office person.
Speaker:Like I can appreciate it.
Speaker:I've seen some episodes I think are really funny.
Speaker:I just never got super into it.
Speaker:And the,
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Don't tell
Speaker:my wife.
Speaker:relationship that I've been in, the other person was like, I think this is dumb.
Speaker:you can end up in like a, If I'm watching TV, usually I'm with that person.
Speaker:So if they really don't like some, I'm probably not going to watch it with them.
Speaker:So then it's what time, I don't know about you, but what time do you have
Speaker:to sit down and watch a whole bunch of episodes of a show by yourself?
Speaker:Dude.
Speaker:Never.
Speaker:Never.
Speaker:Especially once you have kids, but even before that, it was like, I can't
Speaker:very well just going what, like I have a friend and he's I'm in the basement
Speaker:watching this show, my wife's upstairs watching her show my, fine, it works
Speaker:for them, but for me, I just, I'm like, that just seems like a waste of time.
Speaker:at least you can be sitting next to the person getting a little bit of
Speaker:little rubbing a foot or something.
Speaker:Dude.
Speaker:My wife, she'll do this.
Speaker:if I want to watch a show that she doesn't like, right?
Speaker:for example, I don't know, fallout or, Jack Reacher right on prime.
Speaker:Are those her, she likes those shows
Speaker:Oh, she hates him.
Speaker:Hates
Speaker:him.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:So if I'm trying to watch something like that, that she just despises, she'll
Speaker:whip out the audible, the books and
Speaker:start reading the Kindle, And, so yeah, it's great.
Speaker:So we still get to chill, hang out and get a little rub,
Speaker:It was like the, that was like the very beginning of, the boys.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:the very first episode where that chick gets hit with the bus.
Speaker:I was like, yeah, let's try the show.
Speaker:It'll, it looks really cool.
Speaker:And we watched that and she's I'm out.
Speaker:I can't do this.
Speaker:Dude, such a good show.
Speaker:all on today's show on this show, we're going to talk some four nations because
Speaker:it has been a spectacular exhibition tournament, one of the best, I think
Speaker:in a very long time, it's getting great ratings and we have our predicted
Speaker:final USA Canada rematch of the round Robin game, And, I want to just, before
Speaker:we jump into the championship, give me your thoughts on the tournament
Speaker:itself, because I was very blown away.
Speaker:Skeptic.
Speaker:I just, I wasn't sure how I'd feel about it.
Speaker:And then the second it turned out, I think we talked, it was our
Speaker:episode, like the night before,
Speaker:maybe the first game.
Speaker:And then when I sat down to watch that game, I was just on pins and needles.
Speaker:The Canada, Sweden, I was all in
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:As much as, again, as much of a USA fan as I am, I was just excited to watch Crosby
Speaker:and McKinnon and McDavid together, right?
Speaker:And see what kind of magic they, shoot, I think I texted you.
Speaker:I was just like, F me the minute that power play
Speaker:nine seconds in or something.
Speaker:Crosby with that backhand pass.
Speaker:I'm like, forget about it.
Speaker:This is what we're in store for.
Speaker:Now, unfortunately, the power play hasn't lived up to all the
Speaker:hype that I expected it to be, but
Speaker:They haven't gotten that many opportunities in the
Speaker:no.
Speaker:And let's face it,
Speaker:really, right?
Speaker:You've got,
Speaker:Mission.
Speaker:yeah, you've got a bunch of guys who are passers, who are playmakers, right?
Speaker:You don't have, I hate to say it, Canada doesn't have a lot
Speaker:of guys that I would consider shooters in the traditional sense.
Speaker:Yeah, maybe at their top skill
Speaker:No, Stephen Stamkos
Speaker:is no Alex Ovechkin's right where you just look at them.
Speaker:You're like, that's a goal scorer.
Speaker:yeah, I could see why the power play maybe
Speaker:have been on this team had he played a little better.
Speaker:Yeah, maybe,
Speaker:but,
Speaker:should have made this team?
Speaker:You think he should have made it?
Speaker:even
Speaker:Stan, no.
Speaker:No, you wouldn't put him in there?
Speaker:No, I don't think I would have put Seth Jarvis in.
Speaker:see that's the thing, could Stam Should Stamkos have made
Speaker:the team over, Ste Seth Jarvis?
Speaker:At least Jarvis served a purpose of killing penalties.
Speaker:that he did.
Speaker:But regardless, I think, to answer your question, I think it lived up to exactly
Speaker:what I thought it was going to be.
Speaker:And, but I will say that us Canada game, I did not expect that kind of intensity
Speaker:right off the draw,
Speaker:right off the bat
Speaker:nine seconds, just,
Speaker:and I love it was straight bash brothers like Matthew Kachuk got in that fight
Speaker:and the next face off Brady Kachuk gets in that fight and when he came back
Speaker:to the penalty box it was true brad bash brothers it was amazing and it
Speaker:really made me hope that someday they actually plan a team together as it
Speaker:would be so fun there might not be enough room on one team for both those guys
Speaker:Over the course of an 82 game season,
Speaker:that would be so much fun to watch.
Speaker:And I got to give it to JT Miller because listen, Colton
Speaker:Paranko is a beast of a man.
Speaker:He's a tall fella.
Speaker:And Miller is, he's not the biggest guy and he did,
Speaker:he was
Speaker:his own.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:he was scrappy in there.
Speaker:Uh, I thought that, in that first game, Finland, they held their own through the
Speaker:first two periods against the U S and then they they fell apart a little bit.
Speaker:And then in the game against Canada, they went down big and then they rallied.
Speaker:So like they were able to, there was definitely enough skill on that team.
Speaker:they beat Sweden in overtime.
Speaker:They, there was enough skill on that team where it did make you go, Oh, Finland,
Speaker:like Finland brought it a little bit.
Speaker:Like they were definitely ready to, and I want to say it was line a, who said, we're
Speaker:not, they're the little brothers now or
Speaker:We're not the big.
Speaker:they beat them.
Speaker:Which it was one game and it went into overtime and you played three on three.
Speaker:I don't think we're ready to say that Finland is necessarily, the
Speaker:big brother now, but maybe they're like two middle brothers because
Speaker:the skill level, at least at the forward position was very comparable.
Speaker:the D. Finland is still just doesn't have the high end that Sweden has, but
Speaker:No.
Speaker:And maybe with a high skin and right playing the whole time, maybe it
Speaker:would have been a little different.
Speaker:and sorrows, right?
Speaker:they went to Kevin Lincoln and for those last two games, I imagine if
Speaker:sorrows play the way we expect him to normally play and, throw this
Speaker:year away, maybe it's a down year.
Speaker:And so next year in the Olympics, We get something different, but
Speaker:they could be a legit threat.
Speaker:I'm wondering if, obviously we're looking at this tournament and we go,
Speaker:Sweden was the biggest disappointment, horrifyingly disappointing, for Sweden,
Speaker:just basically just lost in overtime a bunch of times and, and then, yeah,
Speaker:they go and they beat the U S but they beat the U S and a nothing burger game.
Speaker:They didn't play after team, they
Speaker:No Matthews,
Speaker:no Kachuks.
Speaker:They let everybody rest and they still barely beat them
Speaker:in a game where it was like, you better win this game because you've got some
Speaker:pride on the line and they barely scratched past the U S and that one.
Speaker:So I look at Sweden and I go, man, that's a real disappointing showing.
Speaker:And I think we see a few differences in that the Olympic
Speaker:team to this one because of it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It'll be interesting with the Olympics, especially because, again,
Speaker:we talk about it and you can, you don't have to use just NHL players.
Speaker:you could go, you can pull prospects like, there's a couple of guys, with
Speaker:the Red Wings, from Sweden, ASP.
Speaker:He looks like a beast in the making, right?
Speaker:He's going to be something special, I think, for Detroit.
Speaker:So you could pull guys like that and maybe give that back end a little boost.
Speaker:But, yeah, it w it was a little bit of a disappointment if, if I'm siding
Speaker:with you on this one, I think I am so
Speaker:right.
Speaker:Championship game.
Speaker:Appreciate it.
Speaker:Oh, obviously, it's fair to say that the U. S. had Canada's
Speaker:number in that first game.
Speaker:what Canada went up one, nothing.
Speaker:And then from then on, it was mostly U. S., Canada was missing kale McCar
Speaker:and that is a, like he is, it's like missing your throttle, right?
Speaker:Canada seemed to be in like first, second gear stalling out.
Speaker:They couldn't move the puck nearly as well.
Speaker:He's going to come in.
Speaker:He's going to play 30 minutes.
Speaker:So in my mind, it's quite the different game because of how good he is.
Speaker:we're talking about five, we'll just say top five players in the world.
Speaker:Cal Macar,
Speaker:he's up there.
Speaker:He's up there.
Speaker:10, whatever you like, adding that guy back to the lineup.
Speaker:And the fact that he's going to play half the game's going to look different,
Speaker:knowing that, what do you expect from team USA and the outcome of this one,
Speaker:is Cale McCarr playing, right?
Speaker:That's the big question, right?
Speaker:I haven't heard anything.
Speaker:I
Speaker:game's not till Thursday.
Speaker:And he only, he missed cause he was sick.
Speaker:So I have to think, he missed Saturday and we're out all the way to Thursday.
Speaker:if you can't figure out how to pump a guy full of IV five days after he's sick.
Speaker:I got to think that, maybe something more is wrong, but.
Speaker:you can take this and look at it on the flip side too, right?
Speaker:And you can say, okay, USA doesn't have Quinn Hughes, who is now skating as an
Speaker:extra for team USA, unfortunately, because they didn't put them on the initial,
Speaker:tournament roster to start the tournament.
Speaker:He is, we've got to have another injury, which, Maybe USA, pay somebody to smash
Speaker:Jake Sanderson's kneecap really quick.
Speaker:And then we see Quinn Hughes play.
Speaker:But, yeah, I think with Cale McCarr back there, I think it definitely
Speaker:adds another level, another dynamic that they definitely don't have on the
Speaker:Oh, kill my car played against Finland.
Speaker:I forgot.
Speaker:Oh, did he?
Speaker:Okay, good.
Speaker:which I only saw highlights of that game because I didn't even realize
Speaker:that it was on at one kind of games on
Speaker:I knew, but, unfortunately I'm stuck working.
Speaker:I did not have president's day off.
Speaker:So
Speaker:I thought that it was the U S Sweden game that was at one
Speaker:for some reason, and it wasn't.
Speaker:that would have made more sense
Speaker:And then I went to watch that game.
Speaker:I turned it on and was like, what USA Sweden?
Speaker:I was like, oh gosh, I hope Canada won.
Speaker:it would have made more sense to put Canada up at the primetime
Speaker:just because that game meant more.
Speaker:it
Speaker:actually mattered.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:hard though, to be like, Hey, by the way, we're switching your
Speaker:game time to one instead of eight.
Speaker:Cause a lot of people that probably bought tickets
Speaker:worked.
Speaker:I don't know how they played that Canada one in was that one
Speaker:in Montreal or no, or are they
Speaker:No, it was in Boston?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I guess that makes sense.
Speaker:anyways, who
Speaker:do you think, tell me who you think is going to win.
Speaker:you know what?
Speaker:regardless, Kale McCarve, he's churning at 190%, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker:I still got to think the USA wins this one just because one, Bennington,
Speaker:I just don't have faith in, right?
Speaker:Every single game of this tournament, he's led in a softie.
Speaker:It's true.
Speaker:I just don't understand why they keep doing that.
Speaker:Cooper is, seems to be attached to the hip to Jordan
Speaker:Biddington, and I'm not sure why.
Speaker:yeah, exactly.
Speaker:So I w Hill in there, see what h He's got a, he's got a St his belt.
Speaker:He played well did win.
Speaker:you know him in there.
Speaker:But obvious it's just ride or die.
Speaker:Bu with Bennington, the way he's been playing, he hasn't been lights out.
Speaker:And I think the way Connor Hollibuck's looked, he's been lights out.
Speaker:That's the difference for me right now.
Speaker:I think the USA's physicality is going to slow down the offense
Speaker:and the speediness of Kale McCarr.
Speaker:And they'll, I think.
Speaker:Again, they're going to target guys like McDavid and McCarr
Speaker:and really lay the body to them.
Speaker:So I think they're going to slow down their kind of game that they like to play.
Speaker:That North South, very quick game.
Speaker:but I do think obviously they're going to get their chances.
Speaker:And to me, that's when a guy like Connor Holabuck is going
Speaker:to be the difference maker.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Hellebuck, certainly he was the difference maker in the first game.
Speaker:And U. S. A. played really well.
Speaker:When it was 1 0, Hellebuck made a couple really nice stops.
Speaker:And, suddenly you find yourself at 2 0 in that game.
Speaker:that's a tough road to claw back.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Without a doubt.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And for me too, just looking at the Ford group, I think obviously the
Speaker:advantage is, for Canada, for sure.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:What I like and as a Red Wings fan, I like seeing a guy like Dylan Larkin right now,
Speaker:who's been slowly surging up that lineup.
Speaker:he's looking good.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:and he brings the speed, right?
Speaker:So he can match you.
Speaker:and I've been really, more than anybody else, I think, on this team, I've been
Speaker:more impressed with Jack Eichel's play.
Speaker:just the way he plays at both ends of the ice, he's been back checking, It's
Speaker:been a phenomenal game to watch it.
Speaker:So it's a masterclass, in my opinion, how to play top end guys, the way he
Speaker:back checks, he four checks, he plays the
Speaker:He does that for Vegas too.
Speaker:That's
Speaker:how he plays.
Speaker:but it goes unnoticed because he's on the West Coast.
Speaker:Maybe one of the more underrated players in the NHL is Jack Kel
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:And you
Speaker:he's not a guy who's usually leading the league in points.
Speaker:And although this year he's been doing, he's been up there at certain
Speaker:points, but typically he hasn't been, he's not winning trophies.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And you got to think watching.
Speaker:listen, when he came to Vegas, they had Mark Stone.
Speaker:So you got to think watching a guy like that, that only helps, just boost his game
Speaker:a little bit over these last few years.
Speaker:So it's you know, it's been fun to watch.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:There has been times where
Speaker:I just, I look at this, I go, it's a gold medal game.
Speaker:It's Crosby.
Speaker:He has never not won a gold in anything he's ever done for Canada.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:it's, this is, the way that they played against Finland, the way they
Speaker:came out now, of course, Finland storm back, they made it a game,
Speaker:but the way that they came out.
Speaker:It made me go, okay, like no one is dicking around once it matters.
Speaker:And did that team USA game matter?
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:Was it, was anybody not trying to win?
Speaker:No, but I think this game is going to be at a different level.
Speaker:I don't think that Canada is going to get sucked in to the
Speaker:fighting the way that they did.
Speaker:Oh, granted, I'm looking at it.
Speaker:I'm going Brady Kachuk, Matthew Kachuk and JT Miller in exchange
Speaker:for what it was Colton Parako and.
Speaker:Brendan Hagel
Speaker:Sam Bennett, I think.
Speaker:was like, I would, I'll take my three guys gone in exchange for
Speaker:those three guys being gone for team USA for the first five minutes.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:So I, but I think that gave them so much life and they were just so jacked up.
Speaker:And I think that was the beginning of okay, this game's going to be different.
Speaker:You're going to, we're going to play the American way.
Speaker:And I think there's, there needs to be like, don't get sucked in
Speaker:to that the same way in this game.
Speaker:So we'll see how the beginning of the game starts again.
Speaker:I think with the return of Makar and.
Speaker:The fact that it is very difficult to beat the same team twice,
Speaker:especially a high powered, you think about two of the best teams in the
Speaker:league go up against each other.
Speaker:How often does one team just beat up on the other one?
Speaker:Not often, there's usually some back and forth.
Speaker:So I'm looking at it.
Speaker:I'm going, I think that Canada is going to be able to play chess
Speaker:with them a little more and.
Speaker:They'll find a way to win.
Speaker:Keep Crosby's streak alive.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:No,
Speaker:a guy like, with a guy like that though, I, you could flip a coin with this
Speaker:game because again, guys like that, they just, they will teams to win.
Speaker:Crosby is that kind of guy.
Speaker:And there's a reason he's a captain and I do think
Speaker:He's got three Stanley Cups
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:Yeah, I just, I don't I, as somebody asked me this question, they're like,
Speaker:you're American and you were Canadian.
Speaker:And so who are you cheering for now that you're American, because
Speaker:really I haven't had to deal with this because the last time was
Speaker:2016, I had just become an American.
Speaker:So I was like, I'm still just cheer for Canada, but now it's,
Speaker:I'm fully, I'm rooted here.
Speaker:I'm.
Speaker:So I said, here's what I've decided.
Speaker:I've decided that any team that still has Sidney Crosby on it is still a
Speaker:tie back to the olden days for me.
Speaker:So I will be rooting for the team with Sidney Crosby, but whenever Sidney
Speaker:Crosby hangs them up, if that is.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm assuming he's going to stick around long enough to be
Speaker:the captain of the Olympic team.
Speaker:And then that will likely be his last year, or there's no way
Speaker:he's making it to the Olympics.
Speaker:2030 Olympics, at least if he's still playing at that point, then he's
Speaker:probably not making the Olympic team.
Speaker:I hope he proved me wrong, but I said, once he's gone,
Speaker:then I will, I'll switch over.
Speaker:I'll cheer for team USA.
Speaker:So that's where I stand with that.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:should we jump into some rumors?
Speaker:Elias
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Let's talk.
Speaker:Petterson, any chance he gets dealt?
Speaker:Nah,
Speaker:No,
Speaker:I can't see it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:the only chance I could see him getting dealt.
Speaker:And maybe you could put this at 5 percent as if a team throws out an offer.
Speaker:That's just far too good to be, turned away.
Speaker:And, and when I say that too, that also has to come with a
Speaker:combination of some other things.
Speaker:I think Vancouver's got to start, Tanking not on purpose, they just
Speaker:start losing a bunch of games.
Speaker:Maybe they go three, seven and one over there or, next 11 games, whatever.
Speaker:And, they just dropped in the standings and it's okay, the season's
Speaker:over with, and then a team comes over and says, Hey, you know what?
Speaker:Your season's over with, you probably want to move a few players.
Speaker:We're interested in Elias Pettersson, here.
Speaker:We're going to give you this grade A prospect.
Speaker:three first round picks, whatever, just something too good to turn away.
Speaker:And then, maybe they're like, you know what Demco hasn't looked great.
Speaker:We don't know what his health is going to be like moving forward.
Speaker:So maybe it's time to hit reset really quick and just reload the
Speaker:cupboards and get a couple new guys in here and maybe sign a couple, sign.
Speaker:Miko Rantanen in the off season, give him 15 million bucks and
Speaker:then we can do a quick reload.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:yeah, Brandon's names being tossed around all over the place
Speaker:I
Speaker:and before four nations, we talked about them a lot and yeah, things
Speaker:aren't working out so far, which I mean, we're what, like seven games into
Speaker:him being with the Carolina hurricane.
Speaker:So
Speaker:we can.
Speaker:You can write that off as a guy just getting used to his new space
Speaker:and getting over the shock of being traded from the team that you've
Speaker:been with your whole entire career.
Speaker:And once the four nations started and you saw the way that he was playing
Speaker:for Finland, you Have to have said, all right, obviously there's nothing wrong
Speaker:with him because he has played very well.
Speaker:He looks really good.
Speaker:And if Carolina can't sign him, and they can't figure out a place for him,
Speaker:it would be a damn shame.
Speaker:Now, Rod Brindamore, maybe you're looking at a scenario where he's just such
Speaker:a different type of coach and maybe.
Speaker:Brandon is just not going to respond to that in which case you like maybe
Speaker:you do have to cut bait here before the deadline comes because if he like,
Speaker:can you really afford to lose all that for nothing on a run with a guy who
Speaker:maybe doesn't want to be there at all?
Speaker:I don't
Speaker:that's the thing, right?
Speaker:you have to look at this.
Speaker:Cause I would like, obviously, they bring in a new GM this year, so
Speaker:you're not going to go out and you're not going to fire your GM if a guy
Speaker:like Miko Rantanen doesn't sign.
Speaker:but I would wholeheartedly go back and look at, and I don't
Speaker:know what his contract is.
Speaker:I know he signed a multi year extension.
Speaker:back in May last year or something like that.
Speaker:But, I would absolutely go back and take a harder look at Rod Brendamore.
Speaker:And I know he's well respected.
Speaker:He's been phenomenal in Carolina.
Speaker:Basically, he's getting gallons of lemon juice out of one lemon.
Speaker:With the players.
Speaker:He has it's ridiculous.
Speaker:you gotta look and say, what, is this the system that is really
Speaker:going to succeed in the NHL?
Speaker:Because Carolina, year in and year out, they get into the playoffs, maybe
Speaker:they win around, and when they get in that second round that conference
Speaker:championship, the scoring dries up and then they just shrivel up like.
Speaker:Yeah, I will say this.
Speaker:Maybe he would be better served with a team that's willing to spend, would he
Speaker:have some different talent around them if they had been willing to keep some
Speaker:guys that they let go that is probably the bigger issue in Carolina, which
Speaker:I mean, nothing he can do about an owner that doesn't want to sign guys.
Speaker:But What if Dougie Hamilton was still on this team?
Speaker:What if I, and I suppose they were able to go out and bring Orlov in.
Speaker:Orlov
Speaker:he's not a Dougie
Speaker:defensive specialist.
Speaker:He's Dougie Hamilton.
Speaker:they lose Brady Shea.
Speaker:There's just all sorts of players that they've have just let walk,
Speaker:which sometimes that's a good thing.
Speaker:you don't want to have, someone who just re signs everyone every year.
Speaker:There's, we've definitely seen that before.
Speaker:Oh, had a nice year last year.
Speaker:Let's re sign you to even more when it's pretty clear that.
Speaker:That, whatever that window is closing, Carolina is a fascinating one
Speaker:because they're always there, right?
Speaker:they're not going to miss the playoffs.
Speaker:they're deeply entrenched.
Speaker:They will likely win around.
Speaker:I think, looking at the way that New Jersey has been playing, they had a much
Speaker:better start than they've been having.
Speaker:And, I think Carolina, to me, between those two teams, they're the favorite.
Speaker:If they're playing in the first round, but beyond that, I I don't see this
Speaker:team as a Stanley cup contender and they've been really good for a long
Speaker:time, but they've never been beyond the you don't think everything goes right.
Speaker:They could make the finals.
Speaker:Eh, that's not where you want to be.
Speaker:Although maybe it is, I guess it's better than being the Senators or the Sabres.
Speaker:That's a better place to be speaking of the Buffalo Sabres, there, always
Speaker:love going through a team's roster when they're struggling, because
Speaker:that is the perfect team to go in and grab some players from,
Speaker:who are going to become UFAs.
Speaker:There are a few, we've talked Jason Zucker a little bit, Jordan
Speaker:Greenway, Any chance that, I know Dylan cousins has been on the map.
Speaker:I actually wonder if Dylan cousins even gets dealt at all.
Speaker:I think if I'm the sabers, I'm going, what, can we do
Speaker:with Tate Thompson right now?
Speaker:That's
Speaker:the guy.
Speaker:That's the guy to you want to truly shake up everything.
Speaker:he's, I know he's your best player and, but it's still not working out.
Speaker:He's might as well go in and really shake things up.
Speaker:And he does have a modified, no trade clause that kicks in next year.
Speaker:So you could technically deal him now and
Speaker:you'd be dealing at a high point.
Speaker:he's still a point per game player.
Speaker:I know he's not going to get dealt, but
Speaker:that's where I'm looking.
Speaker:you gotta tell someone who's, who just is worth something, whereas Dylan cousins
Speaker:to me is more like, he's got solid potential, like he's doing well enough.
Speaker:We're still looking at a guy who ultimately is what,
Speaker:like a 40 point player.
Speaker:What's that actually going to fetch you?
Speaker:Maybe a team thinks he could be a 60 point player.
Speaker:Tage Thompson could be a hundred point player.
Speaker:I think he has been right.
Speaker:Wasn't didn't he get a hundred, not a
Speaker:94 94 and 78 games.
Speaker:So he was on a hu almost a hundred point pace that year, 47 goals.
Speaker:So tage Thompson, and I know that's not.
Speaker:You're not like, yes, let's get rid of our best player, but he's the
Speaker:one who's going to fetch you a ton.
Speaker:He's also 27.
Speaker:So where his cousins is 24, maybe cousins can take that, take a next
Speaker:step for you and improve there in Buffalo with a better team around them.
Speaker:but I guess if you dealt Tate Thompson, it would be like
Speaker:another Jack Eichel being dealt.
Speaker:And that would be a blow as well.
Speaker:What
Speaker:that's when you're basically saying Hey, we're rebuilding, right?
Speaker:We're restarting.
Speaker:are they doing?
Speaker:That's what,
Speaker:yeah, I don't know why I, again, I don't even know why they brought in Lindy rough.
Speaker:I know why they brought in Lindy rough, but it was a stupid idea.
Speaker:clearly hasn't worked out, but so you've got Rasmus 24, Oh, and power 22.
Speaker:you've got these young guys where, if you had to rebuild, if you had to retool,
Speaker:refresh, whatever you want to call it, they've still got a good three, four years
Speaker:to where you can try to fix the situation.
Speaker:so for a guy like Tate Thompson, really his window, he's only
Speaker:got three, four years left.
Speaker:I think the way he plays hockey is as rough as he, as, as hard as he goes
Speaker:sometimes, Where I think you've got to, you've got to have a good shot
Speaker:at it here in the next few seasons.
Speaker:and they're not going to
Speaker:No, they're not.
Speaker:Absolutely not.
Speaker:but if I'm, if, so again, if you're trying to shake things up and maybe
Speaker:try to get a better return, other than a guy like Dylan Cousins, I look
Speaker:at a guy like Alex Tuck, who is 28.
Speaker:He's got a five team, no trade clause.
Speaker:So yeah, you can pretty much trade him wherever you want.
Speaker:And if you go into the deadline and you didn't dangle a player like that,
Speaker:who I think any team in the NHL would love to have in their top six come
Speaker:playoff time because of the philip
Speaker:playoff performer.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And he scores goals.
Speaker:He's physical.
Speaker:that to me is a guy who can easily get you a first round plus in return.
Speaker:So you could easily make that into a, whatever you want to call it, a
Speaker:nice little bounty for your team and to really kickstart whatever kind of
Speaker:refresh you want to have in Buffalo.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Refresh.
Speaker:they just have never gotten, they've never finished rebuilding.
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:All
Speaker:there's been a rumor out there about John Tavares that following the four
Speaker:nations or sometime before the trade deadline that he's ready to sign a
Speaker:three year, 7 million per season.
Speaker:Contract.
Speaker:So basically three years, 21 million, three times seven.
Speaker:I'll give my thoughts, but I want to hear what you think first.
Speaker:So first time hearing that.
Speaker:okay, let's just assume, he signs at that number.
Speaker:They have 31 ish million dollars in cap space next year.
Speaker:You take that money, right?
Speaker:Subtract seven.
Speaker:Now you've got, roughly 24 million bucks in cap space.
Speaker:You've got to sign Mitch Marner, right?
Speaker:You can easily get that done.
Speaker:But, now, when you sign Marner to 12 to 14 million bucks, whatever
Speaker:that, discount, you're going to try to convince him to give you.
Speaker:Is that enough to really.
Speaker:And after four nations, I don't, I think you're looking at him going, bro, like
Speaker:it's hard to look at him and be like, yeah, you're obviously on the same
Speaker:plane as these other 14 million guys.
Speaker:Cause he's just not.
Speaker:he's slow.
Speaker:you talked about Larkin and how it's been fun to see him move his way up the lineup.
Speaker:Marner's playing with Hagel now he's found his way down the lineup
Speaker:because he just hasn't been there now.
Speaker:And some of that you could say, it's cause he's playing with
Speaker:somebody who also is a passer.
Speaker:Like they needed to find somebody who could shoot the puck and that's fair,
Speaker:but he just, he did look a little out of place on a line with McDavid.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I, who knows, right?
Speaker:I don't really read into that too much as far as, chemistry and guys, but
Speaker:yeah, I do think there is something to be said about not putting him with a
Speaker:goal score because look, he's played his mostly his entire career with
Speaker:Austin Matthews.
Speaker:who, yeah, who puts the puck in the back of the net.
Speaker:So you're going to reap the
Speaker:Babcock who was like, no, you're not playing together.
Speaker:Not playing them together.
Speaker:Not doing it.
Speaker:Mario, you're playing on the fourth line.
Speaker:You bitch.
Speaker:Give me your phone.
Speaker:but here's the thing with Tavares, right?
Speaker:he's 34 years old.
Speaker:do I think he's still got some good hockey in front of him?
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:Is it 7 million worth?
Speaker:Maybe, right?
Speaker:if you can get 60 points out of this guy,
Speaker:he's got 45 and 48 games so far.
Speaker:So
Speaker:you're looking at a, about a 70 point season,
Speaker:right.
Speaker:And I think, again, even if you can get 60 plus points out of
Speaker:this guy, the contract looks good.
Speaker:again, I worry about their inability, again, to bring in other guys, right?
Speaker:Because they've hamstringed themselves into, I don't want to say committing
Speaker:to, to Matthews, to Nylander, to Marner, but, How do you replace those guys?
Speaker:you can't go out there and get equal talent if you move them or if you try
Speaker:to go find somebody else in free agency.
Speaker:So you're almost hamstringed into signing these guys anyways
Speaker:to ridiculous contracts.
Speaker:And then it leaves you a little light in the pocket book to go sign depth guys.
Speaker:And I think bringing in a guy like John Tavares, does that too.
Speaker:I'd rather them spend the money on.
Speaker:I know it's difficult to find good centerman, but I'd rather than maybe
Speaker:give him a one year, seven mil contract
Speaker:even like one times nine,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:be like, we'll give you the bigger contract, but, yeah, the here's my issue.
Speaker:No, no contract should be signed this year.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:You like, how can you sign him?
Speaker:And then let's say they go into the playoffs and God forbid, they
Speaker:lose in the first round again.
Speaker:You seriously want to bring him back again, after not only
Speaker:complete and utter failures, but.
Speaker:In Toronto, but also in New York before that,
Speaker:even if he, again, even if Toronto loses in that first round and they
Speaker:have that contract signed and he even looks good in the playoffs and
Speaker:maybe is their only good player.
Speaker:That contract is still hard to move if you want to try to shake up the roster, right?
Speaker:well, and that's the thing is that at that point, I think you have
Speaker:to go, this is not going to work.
Speaker:This will never work.
Speaker:We have to like, and he's the one who you could get rid of.
Speaker:a dream scenario, but it is possible if you don't bring Tavaris
Speaker:back, let's say you sign Marner.
Speaker:And the reason that you convince Marner to come back is because Rantan is coming too.
Speaker:And now you have the money to move things around a little bit.
Speaker:I don't know, probably not, but, that's definitely leafs leaf stock there and
Speaker:another guy is Nicholas Ehlers and he's a UFA at the end of the year too,
Speaker:and he may be the least talked about UFA.
Speaker:so far, but he, here's a guy who just consistently puts
Speaker:up 60, 70 points every year.
Speaker:60 points last year, like he's a little injury prone, but generally relatively
Speaker:close to that point per game spot.
Speaker:Usually scores 20 goal, 20 plus goals.
Speaker:Like he is going to be somebody who is very desired and he's coming up as well.
Speaker:Not going to catch the money that some of these other guys are getting, but,
Speaker:And the jets obviously not dealing him in the position that they're in
Speaker:somebody to, to keep an eye out for as well in the off season, any other
Speaker:rumors, any, anything with Detroit, what
Speaker:Yeah, the one big thing I think with Detroit, that we've been
Speaker:hearing prior to the break has been Vladimir Tarasenko's name.
Speaker:He's been floating around there.
Speaker:I think, obviously he hasn't got as much ice time as maybe, maybe he would like.
Speaker:And I think his production hasn't been where Detroit would like it to be either.
Speaker:I just don't think that marriage, Has really worked out.
Speaker:I think the way we all saw it, even with either coach, right?
Speaker:I just don't think it's looked good.
Speaker:I don't think he's a long term solution.
Speaker:I know he's only got one more year.
Speaker:But, I think this might be a situation where he's just better suited with another
Speaker:team that could use him this year and next year for a couple of playoff runs.
Speaker:And, give Detroit an opportunity to bring in some of these younger guys who, are
Speaker:better served up in the NHL than they have been right now down in the minors.
Speaker:I'm looking at guys like Nate Danielson, maybe even who we've
Speaker:seen recently with Elmer Soderblom.
Speaker:He's looked phenomenal
Speaker:he got called up actually,
Speaker:Yeah, so what I'm saying is give some of these younger guys a shot
Speaker:and I think for Detroit, right?
Speaker:If they want to, if they want to tell their fans, where we're in the thick
Speaker:of things, Hey, you know what, we're going to reward the success you've
Speaker:had lately, considering that they, or assuming that they keep up this kind
Speaker:of success, you go out and you make a move and you bring in a nice little
Speaker:top nine forward for this group, right?
Speaker:You don't maybe spend a first round pick, but you could bring in a guy
Speaker:like a Jack Rock, Ross Levitch, if they're looking to move him, because
Speaker:he's slowly, gone down in that lineup since ran and then came over,
Speaker:I'm looking at, I'm looking at, Grizzlik and if Matt Grizzlik,
Speaker:Pittsburgh is going to be more than happy to deal with them, I think.
Speaker:And, now he may fetch a first round pick.
Speaker:Just because he's got the playoff
Speaker:pedigree.
Speaker:he's got a lot of experience and he's he's a pretty recognizable, top four
Speaker:defensemen probably in a fetch a first round pick, could you package a couple
Speaker:seconds or something like that for him, a second and a third, maybe, but.
Speaker:I think he would be a great fit for Detroit because, you look at that decor
Speaker:and you don't, nothing screams all that guy is, he's a tough defenseman and
Speaker:that's the way I always felt about macro is he's got that Boston Bruins course.
Speaker:That's where he played for so long.
Speaker:He's got that Bruins attitude about him that I think he could really breathe
Speaker:some life into that Detroit roster.
Speaker:and I know Petrie's on the IR, he would be a great guy to just, if you could sweep
Speaker:out Jeff Petrie in some deal to open up cap space to allow you to do even more.
Speaker:I think Detroit, like Detroit, they don't need to go all in, but they
Speaker:really need to make the playoffs.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:not even from an NHL standpoint, from just a sports market standpoint, we're starting
Speaker:to see the Tigers and the Lions eat I know the Pistons are bad, but, I you're really
Speaker:trying to fight for attention with people.
Speaker:And as soon as the tigers start, if the red wings aren't good anymore,
Speaker:people stop going to your games and everyone's just in on the tigers, right?
Speaker:So you gotta get, I think you gotta give your fans something to get excited
Speaker:about and at least be right there at the end and even better make a first round.
Speaker:Matchup.
Speaker:I think that's very important to this team.
Speaker:You gotta get lost.
Speaker:Been too long.
Speaker:And I'm going to throw a name out there who I think you could get on
Speaker:the cheap, maybe a third round pick or maybe a, a third and fourth,
Speaker:whatever you want to call it.
Speaker:a couple mid level pieces, right?
Speaker:little nostalgia factor, but who had 70 plus points last year, I think
Speaker:would come in, bring a little boost just because of that nostalgia factor.
Speaker:And that'd be Gus Nyquist.
Speaker:if you're moving on a guy like Tara Sanko.
Speaker:Right
Speaker:now you pair him.
Speaker:Now he actually gets a centerman where you could throw in JT Comper or Andrew
Speaker:Kopp with him on that third line, and now he's got a decent center to play with.
Speaker:like it.
Speaker:Yeah, and then you get a little excitement from the fans who
Speaker:remember him, from the Glory days here with Tim Thomas guitar and.
Speaker:and maybe for him too, right?
Speaker:He gets a little boost coming back to Detroit and maybe he just
Speaker:turns it up a little bit, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, with Tarasenko, there has been rumors, of course, Toronto's in on
Speaker:every rumor, but because Berube, he had some of his best years
Speaker:with Greg Berube, and won a Stanley cup with him that Berube may be asking or
Speaker:has targeted Tarasenko as a guy that he would like to bring in to put in
Speaker:his bottom six and then, you I just can't, I don't know that he would find
Speaker:a place on the power play very often, maybe the second power play unit.
Speaker:you could, but I think if you're Toronto, you're gonna,
Speaker:you're gonna want a discount.
Speaker:You're not gonna want to take that whole salary over here.
Speaker:so that might cost you a couple of pieces that maybe I don't
Speaker:know if Toronto might be willing
Speaker:I, I
Speaker:at this point.
Speaker:but maybe Detroit's just willing to give them away for free because
Speaker:they want to use that cap space for other things next year.
Speaker:So
Speaker:now he does have a no trade clause, so he can tell you
Speaker:where he wants to go completely.
Speaker:So if
Speaker:he picks one team, he wants to go back to St. Louis, he's going there, or
Speaker:maybe he wants to go back to Florida.
Speaker:he did, he had a pretty nice run.
Speaker:Now, Florida, did they go to the finals?
Speaker:Was it the year that they went to the finals?
Speaker:Oh, it was last
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He won a Stanley Cup with them.
Speaker:Yeah, I couldn't remember if
Speaker:Ky a poso
Speaker:year after,
Speaker:and I will say when he was in Florida, he looked good because he, he understood
Speaker:his role in that third line with Florida.
Speaker:He understood he was going to be more checking forward and not
Speaker:necessarily a goal score like he was.
Speaker:And so he would chip an offense every once in a while, but he played
Speaker:that third line grinder defense.
Speaker:Style, I think a little bit better than I, I thought he would
Speaker:have, going into that system.
Speaker:So maybe he goes back there.
Speaker:He just hasn't looked right with Detroit and just never found
Speaker:a fit, which is unfortunate.
Speaker:I thought that he would be able to provide some scoring from
Speaker:that bottom six a little more.
Speaker:And he just hasn't, he may be the kind of guy, like he's got to play in the
Speaker:top six or he's just not going to.
Speaker:Be able to do much.
Speaker:That could be.
Speaker:And let's face it too.
Speaker:that depth at the center position Florida has is a lot better
Speaker:than what Detroit has right
Speaker:now.
Speaker:Lundell and
Speaker:he would play pretty well in Toronto because,
Speaker:yeah, maybe
Speaker:and which down the
Speaker:pair him with Max
Speaker:last Matthews and past Matthews and Tavares, there's not much
Speaker:of the center position with that
Speaker:you could throw him with Max Domi.
Speaker:I would like to see that.
Speaker:yeah, he's maybe it's Terry, you think Tara Senko is just he's lost
Speaker:a little bit of a step to this year,
Speaker:let's face it.
Speaker:he is, he's a very passionate hockey player and I think maybe just losing,
Speaker:it took a little steam out of him.
Speaker:and again, he's just coming into a system now where he's, he has to be a little
Speaker:bit more responsible defensively because let's face it, Detroit doesn't have
Speaker:which is where he came from.
Speaker:And St. Louis tend to be very
Speaker:responsible
Speaker:he knew how to be responsible but he wasn't expected to be
Speaker:the responsible player, right?
Speaker:He could go out, he could go out and just score and let, Ryan O'Reilly
Speaker:or Robert Thomas deal with that.
Speaker:And so now he has to be that guy.
Speaker:And, maybe he just hasn't risen to the occasion.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:any final thoughts before we get out of here?
Speaker:go USA.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Let's I just, I want to see overtime.
Speaker:Give me another golden goal.
Speaker:oh no.
Speaker:A golden
Speaker:my heart can't take that anymore.
Speaker:I can't.
Speaker:That'll be the best.
Speaker:And then you get five on five nonstop overtime for all of eternity until
Speaker:it, that's what I'm I'll root for that and also rooting for Crosby
Speaker:to keep his gold medal alive.
Speaker:you can follow us on social media at OT hockey talk, wherever you can
Speaker:find us and, subscribe to the show, Justin, enjoy that game on Thursday.
Speaker:And to you, our listeners, thanks for being here and enjoy
Speaker:the final, the gold medal game.
